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PRI, now MotoCancelli

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neilsie Avatar
neilsie neil S
toronto, ON, Canada   CAN
1976 Triumph 1500 "Merlin"
I sure wish I put all that money in Hap's pocket.But I didn't know about him.More learnin's fer' Neil I guess.
Still having a blast with my LBC in spite of all the pain and misery.
N.

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Speedracer Avatar
Speedracer Platinum Member Hap Waldrop
Greenville, SC, USA   USA
1967 MG MGB Racecar "The Biscuit"
In reply to # 1269045 by neilsie I sure wish I put all that money in Hap's pocket.But I didn't know about him.More learnin's fer' Neil I guess.
Still having a blast with my LBC in spite of all the pain and misery.
N.

Well thank you for the kinds word, truth is most of it goes in the part suppliers pocket. smiling smiley



Hap Waldrop
Acme Speed Shop
864-370-3000
www.acmespeedshop.com
Engines, Rebuild Kits and More.


Member Services:
MG/ Triumph Performance Street/Race Engines - Cylinder Head Porting - Modified SU HS Carbs - DIY Engine Rebuild Kits With Free Tech Advice - VTO alloy wheels for British Sport Cars, and others
Speedracer Avatar
Speedracer Platinum Member Hap Waldrop
Greenville, SC, USA   USA
1967 MG MGB Racecar "The Biscuit"
In reply to # 1268975 by mike78spitfire Hap, I've seen your name forever. Cancelli used the wrong bearings.

Mike, could you explain this better, because you are losing me on this one. Now I've seen Carrillo rods, that used MGB rod bearings in a Spitfire, because the MGB bearing was wider, A MGB and big journal Triumph use the same size connecting rod big end housing bores and very similar shaft sizes (within .0004"winking smiley racers over the years have opted for special made rods to use the MGB bearing in the large journal engines. I've not worked with a lot of 1300s, mostly 1500s, so mostly large journal stuff. When I research Spitfire rod bearings I see two bearings, early 1962-1970 which has a smaller rod housing bore, and shaft size, so that wouldn't fit to the large journal housing bore if your tried, then there is the later 1971-1980 large rod bearing.

Also on your video on Facebook, you show someone moving a connecting rod from side to side while bolted on the crank, side clearance is normal, what you didn't show/talk about is how much side clearance there was, ideal would be around .015", but I've seen motors operate just fine with as much as .020" and as little as .010" .



Hap Waldrop
Acme Speed Shop
864-370-3000
www.acmespeedshop.com
Engines, Rebuild Kits and More.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-28 08:02 AM by Speedracer.


Member Services:
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Born Loser Avatar
Born Loser Silver Member Matthew Taylor
Land O Lake, FL, USA   USA
bump



Matthew
1960 Triumph TR3a
1970 Triumph Spitfire MK 3
2012 Mini Cooper SS Convertible
2018 Jaguar F-Pace

Speedracer Avatar
Speedracer Platinum Member Hap Waldrop
Greenville, SC, USA   USA
1967 MG MGB Racecar "The Biscuit"
In reply to # 1269978 by Born Loser bump


Yes I would like to know more answers as well. I assuming the engine has long been torn down and many answers have been lost now. I talk about this in the engine disassembly article I wrote for Moss Motoring magazine, that one has the ability to more forensically do a engine disassembly to find answers. It was stated the engine operated for like 4 hours, so that tells me if it were a clearance issue, it would have shown itself earlier. What I see with a little as I have to look at was a oil starvation issue, that could have been caused by many reasons. there are lot of questionable things in the pictures showing less than desirable work, but not enough info to figure out why it happen, and the bearing deal doesn't add up.



Hap Waldrop
Acme Speed Shop
864-370-3000
www.acmespeedshop.com
Engines, Rebuild Kits and More.


Member Services:
MG/ Triumph Performance Street/Race Engines - Cylinder Head Porting - Modified SU HS Carbs - DIY Engine Rebuild Kits With Free Tech Advice - VTO alloy wheels for British Sport Cars, and others
mike78spitfire Mike Jankowski
Austin, TX, USA   USA
1971 MG MGB
1978 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Rocketdog"
We haven't even gone into the timing that was so off it was a major factor in overheating, and as I said before the entire engine was assembled and the oil pan bolts, rod bolts, flywheel bolts were only fingertight. The oil pan had one bolt hole stripped, so Cancelli used a helicoil which protuded at least a 16th or more of an inch. This, combined with all the other bolts barely even being torqued, let a bit of oil leave the engine.

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Speedracer Avatar
Speedracer Platinum Member Hap Waldrop
Greenville, SC, USA   USA
1967 MG MGB Racecar "The Biscuit"
In reply to # 1270637 by mike78spitfire We haven't even gone into the timing that was so off it was a major factor in overheating, and as I said before the entire engine was assembled and the oil pan bolts, rod bolts, flywheel bolts were only fingertight. The oil pan had one bolt hole stripped, so Cancelli used a helicoil which protuded at least a 16th or more of an inch. This, combined with all the other bolts barely even being torqued, let a bit of oil leave the engine.

Rod bolts only finger tight after 4 hours of running time, seems like they would have came loose and done huge damage. Who timed the ignition, and what was the CR and the ignition timing settings? Normally with greater CR comes less advanced ignition timing.



Hap Waldrop
Acme Speed Shop
864-370-3000
www.acmespeedshop.com
Engines, Rebuild Kits and More.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-28 12:25 PM by Speedracer.


Member Services:
MG/ Triumph Performance Street/Race Engines - Cylinder Head Porting - Modified SU HS Carbs - DIY Engine Rebuild Kits With Free Tech Advice - VTO alloy wheels for British Sport Cars, and others
mike78spitfire Mike Jankowski
Austin, TX, USA   USA
1971 MG MGB
1978 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Rocketdog"
All of this fabulous work was done by Mr Cancelli himself.

neilsie Avatar
neilsie neil S
toronto, ON, Canada   CAN
1976 Triumph 1500 "Merlin"
Wow,
I feel lucky. Did not experience the rod bolt problems but stripped sump bolt yes,as well as leaking frost plug,and loose bolts all round.
The head gasket was cheap $10 garbage that burned as well as cheap rings.All replaced now along with a precision engineering
front seal block that I would have expected from a reputable builder charging his prices. Even if he made it a line item at least give me the choice for the upgrade.Thankfully,I opened the engine in time to prevent any serious damage and hopefully all will be well
now.Not interested in trashing the guy but as previously stated here...I do NOT endorse this vendor.nuff said.
N.

dyls1968 Avatar
dyls1968 Dylan Swift
Aberdeen, Danestone, UK   GBR
Hi guys, just been reading this thread on PRI now Moto Cancelli, I'd just like to add my tuppence worth. I bought the independent rear suspension for my 72 spitfire just a couple of months ago, its now in the car, I had to get longer axles so I bought them from fitchetts in the UK here, I bought refurbished complete with hubs,
Chis cancelli and the suspension has been great, I had more problems with fitchetts as they welded the studs in the back of the hub! I had to get a hub puller and swap back hubs onto the longer axles as I wanted to keep my land rover studs, chris cancellis suspension came, he emailed me specific measurements in a step by step sequence, the quality and workmanship of the product is 2nd to none, I work with welders offshore and know good welding and materials when I see it, and best of all, the suspension has catapulted my spitfire into the 21st century, its such a smooth ride now, i can feel the grip, the whole back end doesn't shudder when going over a bit of rough road and jump and skip everywhere. I would back chris cancelli and his products, granted he had a bit of bother with suppliers the year or two before, but there's been a worldwide market crash, the supply chains everywhere have broken a link here and there, i worked for a company offshore earlier this year, a client of his in Rotterdam Harland & Wolf never paid him £120 K they owed him, stuffed him right up, he paid me 4 months later but that's just an example of something up the chain going wrong, things we never hear about but the company name still gets dragged through the mud by certain individuals, I'm very happy with my product from Moto Cancelli, expensive, but there's been a lot of thought, education, mechanical knowledge, trial and error, and lets face it, in the 43 years my cars been on the road no one else has come up with a solution like this to transform the spitfire suspension



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-12-26 01:22 AM by dyls1968.

grumpicus Steve Jackson
Leicester, Leicestershire, UK   GBR
In reply to # 1337434 by dyls1968 Hi guys, just been reading this thread on PRI now Moto Cancelli, I'd just like to add my tuppence worth. I bought the independent rear suspension for my 72 spitfire just a couple of months ago, its now in the car, I had to get longer axles so I bought them from fitchetts in the UK here, I bought refurbished complete with hubs,
Chis cancelli and the suspension has been great, I had more problems with fitchetts as they welded the studs in the back of the hub! I had to get a hub puller and swap back hubs onto the longer axles as I wanted to keep my land rover studs, chris cancellis suspension came, he emailed me specific measurements in a step by step sequence, the quality and workmanship of the product is 2nd to none, I work with welders offshore and know good welding and materials when I see it, and best of all, the suspension has catapulted my spitfire into the 21st century, its such a smooth ride now, i can feel the grip, the whole back end doesn't shudder when going over a bit of rough road and jump and skip everywhere. I would back chris cancelli and his products, granted he had a bit of bother with suppliers the year or two before, but there's been a worldwide market crash, the supply chains everywhere have broken a link here and there, i worked for a company offshore earlier this year, a client of his in Rotterdam Harland & Wolf never paid him £120 K they owed him, stuffed him right up, he paid me 4 months later but that's just an example of something up the chain going wrong, things we never hear about but the company name still gets dragged through the mud by certain individuals, I'm very happy with my product from Moto Cancelli, expensive, but there's been a lot of thought, education, mechanical knowledge, trial and error, and lets face it, in the 43 years my cars been on the road no one else has come up with a solution like this to transform the spitfire suspension

Well, Dylan, to say you've changed your tune would be something of an understatement......last time I checked (in March of this year), you were struggling to get a refund from Cancelli, just see here if you need reminding:- http://www.triumphexp.com/phorum/read.php?8,1275573 - specifically posts #31, #32 & #41. Seems like you were delighted at the time not to have been scammed out of $1485.00, and you were describing the company as 'conmen' - to use your wording.

Or is it a case of things not being quite what they seem - maybe your last posting in praise of what appears to be an outfit which others would avoid like the plague is something the moderators/administrators really need to have a look at? eye rolling smiley

Alternatively, I guess there's a possibility you've just started celebrating Hogmanay (New Year's Eve to non-Scottish readers) a few days early......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-12-26 02:16 PM by grumpicus.

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mike78spitfire Mike Jankowski
Austin, TX, USA   USA
1971 MG MGB
1978 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Rocketdog"
How does that conversion do anything for handling or ride? It doesn't alter the geometry at all. Roll center correction, ant squat or dive, none of that is addressed. If your Spit seems to skip across bumps and the steering wheel shakes as you hit the bumps, you're experiencing bumpsteer, not a rear suspension issue. Trust me, this rear end setup from Cancelli is total BS. To address the inevitable questions to my knowledge, I work at SPL Parts. We do nothing but suspension. Got to splparts.com to see what I'm talking about. We make no Triumph stuff so it's not a plug. Though I am developing adjustable radius arms for Spitfires.

Also, does anyone know of any championship that a Cancelli car has ever won?

grumpicus Steve Jackson
Leicester, Leicestershire, UK   GBR
In reply to # 1337497 by mike78spitfire How does that conversion do anything for handling or ride? It doesn't alter the geometry at all. Roll center correction, ant squat or dive, none of that is addressed. If your Spit seems to skip across bumps and the steering wheel shakes as you hit the bumps, you're experiencing bumpsteer, not a rear suspension issue. Trust me, this rear end setup from Cancelli is total BS. To address the inevitable questions to my knowledge, I work at SPL Parts. We do nothing but suspension. Got to splparts.com to see what I'm talking about. We make no Triumph stuff so it's not a plug. Though I am developing adjustable radius arms for Spitfires.

Also, does anyone know of any championship that a Cancelli car has ever won?

Mike - I think you've missed the point - what I was trying to imply in my last posting was that I do not believe that posting #100 in this thread is a genuine posting from Dylan Swift of Aberdeen in the UK. Earlier postings from Dylan Swift of Aberdeen in the UK have given a very different view of Cancelli. What I'm trying to spell out is that I believe that someone supporting Cancelli has hacked into Dylan Swift's account...... OK?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-12-26 04:33 PM by grumpicus.

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mike78spitfire Mike Jankowski
Austin, TX, USA   USA
1971 MG MGB
1978 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Rocketdog"
I got that, i was just asking other questions to see about the credibility of his design and claims, his being Chris Cancelli.

spitfire50 Avatar
spitfire50 Paul Mugford
Rochester, N.H., USA   USA
Mike,
The most obvious "benefit" of the PRI rear suspension is the elimination of the improvement in handling the swing spring brought.
All the best,
Paul

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