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Replacing starter.

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Kellern Avatar
Kellern Kirk Ellern
Reno, NV, USA   USA
1978 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Vermillion"
Normally I cherish the fact that this thing is so easy to work on. Today, not so much.

Leaving work the other day I heard a clank as I started up. I made it home no problem but the next morning the starter would spin but not turn the engine. So, maybe the drive gear on the started chipped off? Spit bits has an entire new starter for $120 or so. Maybe I'll take the starter off and have a look first though.

http://www.handyhowie.co.uk/handyhowie/Spitfire_Starter_Motor.html

This looked like a good reference point.

Got the bolts off and yes some of the teeth are worn off. I can't be sure that's the problem yet though. (Iwonder where the teeth bits now live?)

With that long shaft though, I can't sort out how to get it out without pulling the engine.

So.... On a left hand drive car, how in the heck to you get the starter out?

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Kellern Avatar
Kellern Kirk Ellern
Reno, NV, USA   USA
1978 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Vermillion"
video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMm-dE7amdu

This guy says its a 5 minute job but... Not for me I guess

tymnmony Avatar
tymnmony Victor Fleishman
Mississauga, ON, Canada   CAN
Remove you oil filter, and unscrew the oil pressure sender sensor and you should be good to go. pulls straight out.

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Gfiandy Avatar
Gfiandy Andrew D
Cambridge, UK, UK   GBR
It's a five min job on a RHD car as the steering column is not in the way, I have removed mine to replace the brushes. However it does look like you should be able to make enough room removing the oils sender as suggested above.

Regards,
Andrew

clshore Carter Shore
Beverly Hills, FL, USA   USA
It's possible on a Spitfire LHD, you have to get creative with the angles, but I've done it many, many times.
OTOH, removing the starter on a GT6 is NOT so easy.

Kellern Avatar
Kellern Kirk Ellern
Reno, NV, USA   USA
1978 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Vermillion"
Holy crap why didn't I think of that. Pizza Cake! So it's more of a 8 minute job if you faster in typing up the question in the forums! That's why I keep an iPad in the garage!!

I'm gonna go with the aftermarket reduction starter from BPNorthwest. The guy in the video nailed the symptoms so I'm going with his idea. Plus I don't want to mess with bushings and all that. More $$ but more done.

As you can see the gears are all chewed up. Hard to see in the picture but the spring on the shaft is broken too.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-22 06:31 PM by Kellern.


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Kellern Avatar
Kellern Kirk Ellern
Reno, NV, USA   USA
1978 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Vermillion"
By the way, Victor, in a small way of saying thanks, we gave Logan Couture (Mississauga kid) a 5 year $30 million contract extension down here on the San Jose Sharks. He goes home in the summer. He'll buy you a beer if you tell him this story. (Yeah, sure he will)

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Herald948 Avatar
Herald948 Andrew Mace
East Nassau, upstate NY, USA   USA
If the starter gear is that bad, you might want to take a good look at the ring gear. Also, gear reduction starters are nice, but you may have pulled out the original starter, and good used or rebuilt original-style Lucas starters are probably much cheaper and just as good (unless you've got an ultra-high-compression, 120 hp engine)! smiling smiley



http://www.fairpoint.net/~herald948/database/

Kellern Avatar
Kellern Kirk Ellern
Reno, NV, USA   USA
1978 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Vermillion"
Long story* but I'm not sure what I've got in terms of compression. What I do know is after installing a pertronix ignition, HD coil, and increased the spark gap to .032 this thing barked right up and roared like a lion when I turned the key. Since then the starter has been whining more and more until the springy deal broke a week later...

So, maybe I'm on to something.

*previous owner had no idea what he had in his garage for 10 years. Best I can tell its a reconditioned 1296cc 1972 large journal with flat pistons and an improved street cam. Stock exhaust though. Short of disassembly, I'm not sure what I've got but it sure is slow, I know that! This isn't 120 hp, for sure.

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carChips Avatar
carChips Victor Harnish
Kelowna, BC, Canada   CAN
1933 MG Magnette
1973 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Chip"
1989 GMC Sierra 1500 "Bush Truck"
Kirk, those little Denso starters are great. Easy as pie to install. Top fuel guys use them to start their dragsters.

You still need the spacer from your Lucas starter, and may have to relocate the adaptor ring, those starters fit many applications.



'S all for now
Vic

Catfish Phil Avatar
Catfish Phil Phillip Colwart
Hammond, LA, USA   USA
Easiest starter I've ever replaced, and you don't even have to get under the car. If you don't feel like getting the fancy reduction starter, Autozone has these - cheap and no shipping if you let them order it pick it up at the store.

ETA: $50 and a $15 core charge at Auto Zone... or rebuild it yourself with brushes ($8) and bushings ($3)!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-23 09:21 AM by Catfish Phil.

Herald948 Avatar
Herald948 Andrew Mace
East Nassau, upstate NY, USA   USA
...or find a good local rebuilder and get yours back good as new!



http://www.fairpoint.net/~herald948/database/

twomanytriumphs Avatar
twomanytriumphs Gold Member Kyle Darby
Kelso, WA, USA   USA
1965 Triumph TR4 "My Baby"
1966 Triumph 2000 MkI "Bessie"
1970 Triumph GT6+ (MkII) "The Princess"
1977 MG MGB
The "local" rebuilder suggested I butcher a huge hole in the firewall of the GT6 to fit a battery that they sell... Needless to say I thought about it for about the amount of time it took to get from the counter to the front door and decided I would not take a bicycle there anymore. So the rebuilder I now use is about 130 miles away in Portland. I have the denso starters in each of my cars, and they seem to be fine. I had one that was fine in the GT6, but needed a starter to get the 2000 running so I pulled the starter from GT6. In the 2000 it would not engage the flywheel every time. So I swapped the two starters and all is fine now.

The GT6 starter is very similar to change in reference to the TR4 in difficulty to remove, but does not hold a candle in any way to a Stag. When my dad pulled the stag starter the first time it was a 4 hour span over two days I think. When I put the starter in the second one, I got a suggestion to weld a tab onto the head of the bolt about 1.5" long and it would catch against the bell housing and remove the need to fit a wrench on the back side of the upper bolt. I had to pull the starter a couple of times to get at the transmission, and found I could pull a Stag starter in about 15 minutes on a cold car. I have since done this to every car I have as it makes life easier later.
Kyle.

bdnuts Avatar
bdnuts Bruce Nelson
MN, USA   USA
1979 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "REJUVN8R"
I replaced my starter this spring with one from British Starters. It was a tight fit due to the solenoid being mounted on the side of it. I also had to rotate the mounting plate to find the right position. It took me several tries to find the right position, which by then meant I was getting pretty good at wiggling it in. I can't say it seems to start my car any better than the old one, when it was working properly, but I hope it's the last one I will ever have to do. Good Luck.

Bruce

1968triumphgt6 Avatar
1968triumphgt6 Louis Boudreault
Montreal, Canada   CAN
1968 Triumph GT6 "Charlize"
In reply to # 894609 by clshore It's possible on a Spitfire LHD, you have to get creative with the angles, but I've done it many, many times.
OTOH, removing the starter on a GT6 is NOT so easy.

I can't see the problem removing a GT6 starter on a LHD confused smiley. Unless the GT+ or MK3 are very different, it's a 5 min job.

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