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Awfully long time to get oil pressure.

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poulsbobill Bill K
Poulsbo, WA, USA   USA
I know this has been discussed but hoping my particular situation someone can shed some light on.

I had used the wix filter that came with the adapter last year. This year i used a napa gold 1516 (they say the same as a wix) as it was smaller and hoping to reduce oil pressure time.

I am finding though that it is taking longer to get oil pressure. ( maybe 10 seconds cranking cold or low idle start))

I do get about 75 lbs at idle cold and hot hot is about 18 pounds at 800 rpm. And i do get the 10 lbs/1000 at hot.

I have read both filters have a ADV. About the same bypass pressure.

Any ideas or solutions?

I have been cold cranking w/o a choke until i see pressure but...

Thanks,

Bill



1980 Spitfire

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Tonyfixit Avatar
Tonyfixit Tony M
Duncan, BC, Canada   CAN
I have had occasions where an ADV leaks and it will take longer to build pressure.

Filters do not cost much, try using another and see if the issue is resolved.

A Napa 1269 is a little smaller and a very common filter (often known as a 3614 under various other brands)
Is is the closest spect to the Unipart original, other than that the usual adaptor is used.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-20 08:19 PM by Tonyfixit.

clshore Carter Shore
Beverly Hills, FL, USA   USA
What kind of oil pressure gage do you have?
Electric sender and gage, or a long tube connected to a mechanical gage?

I prefer the long tube mechanical gage setup, but in most cases the tube contains trapped air.
The trapped air does not affect accuracy, but it does create a delay while the air gets compressed,
before the gage reads full value.

You can actually see the oil moving in the plastic tube versions as the air gets compressed.

The trapped air is never self purged, but you can purge it yourself.
Disconnect the coil plug wire to prevent it from starting, disconnect the tube at the gage end, and hold it over a container while you crank the motor,
until it stops spitting air.
Reconnect the oil tube, then the coil plug wire, and start the motor. Check for leaks at the gage.

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TheZster Avatar
TheZster Steven Z
SAINT LOUIS, MO, USA   USA
1978 Triumph 1500 "BLK-BRY"
Mechanicals might be a bit more accurate (maybe not depending on your sender and gauge)..... But I'll take electric over mechanical any day of the week.... One less leak to worry about.... and much easier to install....

Is the mechanical more accurate?? Suppose it depends on the quality and calibration of your gauge.... As well as the accuracy of your "second chance pressure gauge" installed prior to the dash gauge (If you're so inclined). Do you really care if you have 50 PSI instead of 47? - and is that 50PSI mechanical correct V the 47 PSI electric? I just want to see pressure in an acceptable range when I'm running my little LBC.... and be able to notice any changes (relative to gauge) when I'm running around..... It's kind of like our temp gauges that no one can rely on for exact temps..... and I don't understand why folks will rely on an exact PSI when in the next breath they don't rely on an exact temperature..... I don't write down day to day PSI.... I just get to know what my gauges say, within reason,,,, and keep my eyes open for anomalies...

Z

clshore Carter Shore
Beverly Hills, FL, USA   USA
In reply to # 1527776 by TheZster Mechanicals might be a bit more accurate (maybe not depending on your sender and gauge)..... But I'll take electric over mechanical any day of the week.... One less leak to worry about.... and much easier to install....

Is the mechanical more accurate?? Suppose it depends on the quality and calibration of your gauge.... As well as the accuracy of your "second chance pressure gauge" installed prior to the dash gauge (If you're so inclined). Do you really care if you have 50 PSI instead of 47? - and is that 50PSI mechanical correct V the 47 PSI electric? I just want to see pressure in an acceptable range when I'm running my little LBC.... and be able to notice any changes (relative to gauge) when I'm running around..... It's kind of like our temp gauges that no one can rely on for exact temps..... and I don't understand why folks will rely on an exact PSI when in the next breath they don't rely on an exact temperature..... I don't write down day to day PSI.... I just get to know what my gauges say, within reason,,,, and keep my eyes open for anomalies...

Z

Well, I've been at this for nearly 50 years, and the simplicity and reliability of a mechanical gage beats the electrical ones by a mile.
Hate to break it to you, but Spitfire electrical components are an Achilles Heel.

With a mechanical gage, there is just one component to fail, the gage itself.
With an electric gage, there ate at least 3 to fail: The sender, the gage, and the electrical system itself (battery/alternator/regulator)

TheZster Avatar
TheZster Steven Z
SAINT LOUIS, MO, USA   USA
1978 Triumph 1500 "BLK-BRY"
In reply to # 1527804 by clshore
In reply to # 1527776 by TheZster Mechanicals might be a bit more accurate (maybe not depending on your sender and gauge)..... But I'll take electric over mechanical any day of the week.... One less leak to worry about.... and much easier to install....

Is the mechanical more accurate?? Suppose it depends on the quality and calibration of your gauge.... As well as the accuracy of your "second chance pressure gauge" installed prior to the dash gauge (If you're so inclined). Do you really care if you have 50 PSI instead of 47? - and is that 50PSI mechanical correct V the 47 PSI electric? I just want to see pressure in an acceptable range when I'm running my little LBC.... and be able to notice any changes (relative to gauge) when I'm running around..... It's kind of like our temp gauges that no one can rely on for exact temps..... and I don't understand why folks will rely on an exact PSI when in the next breath they don't rely on an exact temperature..... I don't write down day to day PSI.... I just get to know what my gauges say, within reason,,,, and keep my eyes open for anomalies...

Z

Well, I've been at this for nearly 50 years, and the simplicity and reliability of a mechanical gage beats the electrical ones by a mile.
Hate to break it to you, but Spitfire electrical components are an Achilles Heel.

With a mechanical gage, there is just one component to fail, the gage itself.
With an electric gage, there ate at least 3 to fail: The sender, the gage, and the electrical system itself (battery/alternator/regulator)

Thanks Carter: I've only been at this for the same 50 years.... and say : To each their own....

I'll not worry about the Achille's heel..... if the electrical system goes goofy - the last thing I'm going to be worried about is a gauge.... and I'll not go into the various components of a mechanical.... as there are certainly more than one potential problem area.

I have no problem at all with your preference...... please don't have a problem with mine...

Z



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-21 05:24 PM by TheZster.

clshore Carter Shore
Beverly Hills, FL, USA   USA
In reply to # 1527807 by TheZster
In reply to # 1527804 by clshore
In reply to # 1527776 by TheZster Mechanicals might be a bit more accurate (maybe not depending on your sender and gauge)..... But I'll take electric over mechanical any day of the week.... One less leak to worry about.... and much easier to install....

Is the mechanical more accurate?? Suppose it depends on the quality and calibration of your gauge.... As well as the accuracy of your "second chance pressure gauge" installed prior to the dash gauge (If you're so inclined). Do you really care if you have 50 PSI instead of 47? - and is that 50PSI mechanical correct V the 47 PSI electric? I just want to see pressure in an acceptable range when I'm running my little LBC.... and be able to notice any changes (relative to gauge) when I'm running around..... It's kind of like our temp gauges that no one can rely on for exact temps..... and I don't understand why folks will rely on an exact PSI when in the next breath they don't rely on an exact temperature..... I don't write down day to day PSI.... I just get to know what my gauges say, within reason,,,, and keep my eyes open for anomalies...

Z

Well, I've been at this for nearly 50 years, and the simplicity and reliability of a mechanical gage beats the electrical ones by a mile.
Hate to break it to you, but Spitfire electrical components are an Achilles Heel.

With a mechanical gage, there is just one component to fail, the gage itself.
With an electric gage, there ate at least 3 to fail: The sender, the gage, and the electrical system itself (battery/alternator/regulator)

To each their own....

I'll not worry about the Achille's heel..... if the electrical system goes goofy - the last thing I'm going to be worried about is a gauge.... and I'll not go into the various components of a mechanical.... as there are certainly more than one potential problem area.

I have no problem at all with your preference...... please don't have a problem with mine...

Z

No problem here from me, to each their own, just sharing my experiences.

Some people are suspicious and untrustful of things electrical ... but I am not one of them,
I was an electronic hobbyist growing up, worked as an Aeronautical Electronic Lab Technician for several years,
was a Computer Field Support Engineer for several years,
finished 2 years of college for my EE degree, before joining the 'Dark Side' and switching to Computer Science for my BSCS degree,
and substantial Post Grad work.
I'm now doing 'Big Data', Hadoop and all of it's friends, creepy stuff if you value individual privacy and liberty.

So I know a lot about what goes on behind the scenes, and where the bodies are buried.

I learned early that you must distrust your instruments, they will lie to you.
Believe most that which is closest to what you seek to measure.

A mechanical gage uses the pressure of the actual oil in a Bourdin mechanism to directly position the indicator needle.

An electronic gage uses: Oil pressure onto a sensor, a diaphragm connected to a variable resistor, or a piezo element
that generates a voltage based on the applied pressure. That signal must be electronically conditioned and linearized,
temperature compensated, and noise filtered, before being passed to the gage itself. The gages are typically conventional
moving coil meters, whose indicator needle positions are proportional to the signal from the sender conditioner circuit.

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TheZster Avatar
TheZster Steven Z
SAINT LOUIS, MO, USA   USA
1978 Triumph 1500 "BLK-BRY"
Aww Shucks....

I'm just a lil ole country boy from North Texas..... and can't even pronounce half those words, let alone spell them..... and when the pickup truck died... we always had the horses to get to the one room school house.....tongue sticking out smiley

Z

rcharris Avatar
rcharris Gold Member Rod Harris
Fort Collins, CO, USA   USA
Hear! Hear!

"Believe most that which is closest to what you seek to measure"

I don't want to incite any flaming here, but what Carter says rings very true to me (40+ years as a machine designer) There is a lesson here that I spend a lot of time attempting to get across to the engineers fresh out of college. That is to measure as physically close to what you are interested in as possible, in a way representative to how you want the part to work, and with as simple a tool as possible. Make a special tool to do the job if necessary; and measure at the end of the shaft where it matters, not just where it is convenient.

Electronics are great, I love my Mitutoyo electronic calipers and micrometers. But my mechanical dial micrometers don't have as much to go wrong, and the battery never needs replacing. I would take an electronic pressure gauge any day over no gauge. But I have a mechanical gauge in my '79 Spit.

Happy Spring, waiting for today's snow to melt.

-rc

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TheZster Avatar
TheZster Steven Z
SAINT LOUIS, MO, USA   USA
1978 Triumph 1500 "BLK-BRY"
In reply to # 1527821 by rcharris Hear! Hear!

Happy Spring, waiting for today's snow to melt.

-rc

Fort Collins?? Been there, still have the T-shirt..... (Anheuser Busch Alumni) and bet that road along the Poudre River is absolutely wonderful in your Spit... But your fly rod better be in multiple sections....LOL

Z

SpiTazz72 Avatar
SpiTazz72 Bryan H
Magnolia, TX, USA   USA
Had anyone in a cold climate tried filling the plastic line on a mechanical gauge with kerosene? The thinner fluid should help the gauge show a reading faster thick oil in the winter.

spitfire50 Avatar
spitfire50 Paul Mugford
Rochester, N.H., USA   USA
In reply to # 1527824 by SpiTazz72 Had anyone in a cold climate tried filling the plastic line on a mechanical gauge with kerosene? The thinner fluid should help the gauge show a reading faster thick oil in the winter.

Bryan,
Pressure is transmitted through the incompressible fluid. Flow of the oil is not required. With air also in the line there would be some slight delay as the fluid would have to move to compress the air. So the viscosity would do something, but measuring the reaction time difference between 0 degrees and 100 degrees would require good instrumentation.
The time lag in the engine actually building pressure would be far greater than the gauge delay.
All the best,
Paul

poulsbobill Bill K
Poulsbo, WA, USA   USA
I have a cheap mechanical gauge. The original oil light actually goes out a second before the new gauge starts to show. But 10 secs still seems long to me.

Anybody else on their time delay from start to pressure?

Thanks for all the ideas guys.

Bill



1980 Spitfire

Tonyfixit Avatar
Tonyfixit Tony M
Duncan, BC, Canada   CAN
I REALLY think air in the OP gauge tube is barking up the wrong tree here. A second or two I might belive, but 10 seconds sounds like an oil filter filling.

Now having said that, All filters and even oil pumps will drain down over time. At the first start of the season I might have to crank for a full 20 seconds to see oil pressure (I do this with the plugs removed to speed cranking)
But a cold start after a day or two should quickly give an oil pressure reading.

For the record, I am a mechanical gauge man! They seem to be more accurate over the range that they read, whereas electronic tend to read most accurate in their mid range. I had an electric gauge once show 5psi OP at idle, when checked with a known to be good mechaical gauge it was 20 psi.

Voda2000 Avatar
Voda2000 Andrew McMillan
Winnipeg, MB, Canada   CAN
In reply to # 1527837 by poulsbobill I have a cheap mechanical gauge. The original oil light actually goes out a second before the new gauge starts to show. But 10 secs still seems long to me.

Anybody else on their time delay from start to pressure?

Thanks for all the ideas guys.

Bill


Mine is the same. The light goes off at 7ish psi I think.



1978 Triumph Spitfire

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