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spitfire oil cooler

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spurs1canada Avatar
spurs1canada Silver Member Barry Hotspur
Winnipeg, MB, Canada   CAN
1972 Triumph GT6 MkIII "Mellow Yellow"
1976 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Li'l Red"
I truly think that venting in the bonnet would help,as far as i'm concerned its way too hot under there.My car has never boiled or even got to the stage where its creaking and groaning but my heat sensor shows the engine compartment at 150 F after a long run on hot days,this surely cant help the oil in the sump or block to cool? Anyone ever felt the heat coming out of the side of the bonnet close to the doors? if it wasn't for the fact my paint job is decent i'd get a shop to hack out a chunk of the bonnet and insert a vent.

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bonnett1954 Avatar
bonnett1954 Silver Member Dave Bonnett
Las Vegas, NV, USA   USA
1978 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Union Jack"
Here's what I have.

When It's 110 degrees I need all the help I can get.


Attachments:
IMG_0137.JPG    32.5 KB
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colodad Avatar
colodad Silver Member Calvin Williams
Grand Junction, CO, USA   USA
I like gills. I was just looking at improving ventilation somehow. side shot please, and inside the bonnet too. Oh maybe that should start another subject.

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spurs1canada Avatar
spurs1canada Silver Member Barry Hotspur
Winnipeg, MB, Canada   CAN
1972 Triumph GT6 MkIII "Mellow Yellow"
1976 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Li'l Red"
Older versions had "gills" on the side and on the bonnet,obviously a cheap out by Triumph for later years,my Gt is 1972 and they already left off the gills.

grumpicus Steve Jackson
Leicester, Leicestershire, UK   GBR
In reply to # 1350710 by spurs1canada Older versions had "gills" on the side and on the bonnet,obviously a cheap out by Triumph for later years,my Gt is 1972 and they already left off the gills.

Introduced for the Mk2 GT6, I believe. Probably helps to keep a bit more air flowing through the radiator, which might delay the point at which the coolant boils. (I don't know if it would do anything for the oil temperature, though - a finned alloy sump might have been a good idea, ground clearance permitting.) Not sure why the gills/louvres were deleted for the Mk3 - I suspect they might have gone out of fashion by then, and that Triumph wanted some kind of 'corporate image' with cleaned-up body lines for the Spit Mk4 & GT6 Mk3.

colodad Avatar
colodad Silver Member Calvin Williams
Grand Junction, CO, USA   USA
oil cooler on a 79 .?. the radiator tipped forward, that extra room for the cooler is gone, unless I mount cooler horizontal with fans atop, blow the heat down onto the ground.. I hope to prevent the oil cooler install if possible, with better engine compartment air flow...

rich wino Richard Ruggiero
wallingford, CT, USA   USA
I would first put a oil temp gauge to see if you really need a cooler.

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ExPatBrit Avatar
ExPatBrit Mike W
Redmond, WA, USA   USA
How about one of these, clamps around the oil filter. drinking smiley

http://qmax.cn/Product.aspx?ID=781


grumpicus Steve Jackson
Leicester, Leicestershire, UK   GBR
In reply to # 1350764 by rich wino I would first put a oil temp gauge to see if you really need a cooler.

Not really necessary - an oil pressure gauge will tell you all you need to know.
The only time you know you need an oil cooler is when the car has been driven fairly hard for a period of more than about 30 minutes (such as at 70mph+ on level roads), and you then slow down to lower speeds (say 30 to 40mph). If the oil pressure drops to a level which is much lower than you would normally expect to see at the lower speeds, and recovers to the level you would normally expect to see within 10 minutes or so, it's a good indicator that the oil has overheated. If you only ever drive short distances, or keep the speed to around 60mph max, it's very unlikely the oil will overheat - unless the ambient air temperature is extremely high.

Apart from air-cooled oil coolers, there are water-cooled oil coolers/heat exchangers which fit between the oil filter and the block - apparently used on some VW models. (Also successfully used on the MG Metro with the 1300 'A' Series BL engine.) The advantage of that type is the coolant warms the oil as the engine warms up, getting it to working temperature quicker - and there are no external oil hoses or extra thermostats. Also a possibility for the late 1500 Spits with the tilted radiator. You'll have to work out how to connect in the water pipes, though.

Mike - I'm not going to comment about the computer PSU fan and the 'heatsink' around the oil filter.......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-02-24 03:40 PM by grumpicus.

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claytoncnc Avatar
claytoncnc Gold Member Marcus Clayton
Melbourne, Ivanhoe, Australia   AUS
As Steve implied above, fitting an oil cooler is a 2 edged sword. Just fitting a simple cooler is probably a bad idea, as oil has to get to temperature to work correctly, and running oil too cool is an engine killer despite high oil pressure. A thermostat should always be used, as the optimum temperature for oil operation is hotter than you would imagine, 110C (230F) to 130C (265F). A coolant to oil heat exchanger is ideal as Steve said, but could be harder to fit.

I suspect the large bearing engines would have more of a need for a cooler.

My 1147 with no cooler gets caned just about every weekend, and after about 30 minutes more or less flat out, consistently above 5000 rpm, and usually in an ambient of 75-85 degF the coolant is around 195 -200F, I do not know the oil temperature, but the stinking hot idle pressure is around 15 psi. These pressures have remained pretty constant over several years and many oil changes.

I have considered fitting a cooler, but on my small bearing engine at least, I am not at all sure it is necessary.

colodad Avatar
colodad Silver Member Calvin Williams
Grand Junction, CO, USA   USA
In reply to # 1350826 by claytoncnc
My 1147 with no cooler gets caned just about every weekend, and after about 30 minutes more or less flat out, consistently above 5000 rpm, and usually in an ambient of 75-85 degF the coolant is around 195 -200F, I do not know the oil temperature, but the stinking hot idle pressure is around 15 psi. These pressures have remained pretty constant over several years and many oil changes.

I have considered fitting a cooler, but on my small bearing engine at least, I am not at all sure it is necessary.

hot idle around 15 psi at the dist bushing oil passage tap where the gauges are normalyl connected, but down stream, at the rear main, could be 6 psi.

claytoncnc Avatar
claytoncnc Gold Member Marcus Clayton
Melbourne, Ivanhoe, Australia   AUS
In reply to # 1350836 by colodad

hot idle around 15 psi at the dist bushing oil passage tap where the gauges are normalyl connected, but down stream, at the rear main, could be 6 psi.

Very true! Could be any number <15.
Would suggest that whatever it is, it is sufficient.
This engine has had one crank grind and 3 sets of bearings in its life with me, over 25 years and many thousands of hard miles.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2016-02-24 08:10 PM by claytoncnc.

jefferygt jeffery Ee
vantucky, WA, USA   USA
Anyone used the larger filter? Any experiences effect pressures or temperature?

bonnett1954 Avatar
bonnett1954 Silver Member Dave Bonnett
Las Vegas, NV, USA   USA
1978 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Union Jack"
Here they are Calvin:


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grumpicus Steve Jackson
Leicester, Leicestershire, UK   GBR
In reply to # 1350836 by colodad
In reply to # 1350826 by claytoncnc
My 1147 with no cooler gets caned just about every weekend, and after about 30 minutes more or less flat out, consistently above 5000 rpm, and usually in an ambient of 75-85 degF the coolant is around 195 -200F, I do not know the oil temperature, but the stinking hot idle pressure is around 15 psi. These pressures have remained pretty constant over several years and many oil changes.

I have considered fitting a cooler, but on my small bearing engine at least, I am not at all sure it is necessary.

hot idle around 15 psi at the dist bushing oil passage tap where the gauges are normalyl connected, but down stream, at the rear main, could be 6 psi.

Calvin - as you've already got a second sender & gauge - could you also please check the oil pressure at the front of the gallery (No.1 main bearing takeoff point), and compare that with the reading at the oil pump bush? The reason I'm asking is that this reading would be taken very close to the point at which oil flows into the gallery from the oil filter, and should give the highest pressure reading obtainable. If the oil pump bush is the cause of the restriction, then I would expect the reading from the front to be around 6psi higher than the reading at the usual oil pressure takeoff point (as this is at the mid-point of the oil passageway around the bush), and maybe 12 psi higher than the reading at the rear. I must admit I'm a little surprised that there is such a restriction at the oil pump bush, as the combined cross-sectional area of the two passageways around the bush is greater than the cross-sectional area of the gallery itself. If that is the case, I think I'll be reaching for the rotary grinder and enlarging the hole in the block around the narrow section of the oil pump bush - assuming I can get the grinder in there!

Marcus - I think you are correct, it's probably only the large journal crank engines which have the problems, and maybe only at higher engine speeds. The small journal cranks with the lighter conrods would place less loading on the crank & conrod bearings, and create less bearing drag.

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