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distributor leads toplugs and coil

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Fogspawn, CA, USA   USA
1974 Triumph TR6 "Machine"
frightfully sorry, but feel compelled to offer following...
I was under the bonnet, fiddling with spark plug and coil leads...
mmm... concluding, we THINK all is connected... but under the
fancy rubber boots the connection can be vague... you think
you have it... distrib cap to each plug and cap to coil...
my 1974 tr6 has been running what I call well, but never totally right
I think because I did not have the basic distib cap to coil lead really plugged home...
(again, those rubber booties) I was more careful today to ram the bastards
home, acytually reversed the distrib to coil connection.. making sure
the little lockers were locking.

I think I was getting [partial firing voltage.. somwhat inconsistent, but livable...
but today something, oh, checking oil... and I checked the sparking leads
blue cobalts...
I am reasonably certain I did not have secure connect between coil and distribcap...
Maybe I was getting a fraction pf the voltage... Anyway, I connected and drive
and fine car idles a bit faster (I can change that), steadier... and in all power applied phases so to speak car is peppier, now theory getting all 20 thousand volts or whatevere is called for...
to the point now I will revisit timing, point gap,.. etc since now engine idles a bit higher and more steady/...
cold start is easier...
mybe I willsee some improvement gas mileage. who knows... but running is smoother...
Point of this verbal twaddle is, everything you have done, check twice if you can...It sounds asinine, but if you are plagued by iffy running problems... it can come down to getting less than opt for spark strength...
This was all I did, pulled the cable from distrib to coil, turned it around snd replugged, making sure i got everythig home...
generl performance immed is better..., i think I have to dial down idle speed now,
sorry this sounds funky a-ss.. but we can miss basics chasing the exotic...

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TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
My technique is to pull the boots back up the wire, so you can first connect just the wire without the boot to complicate the issue. You should be able to feel it snap into place and be held firmly. Then hold the wire with one hand and slide the boot into place.

Of course, where it really gets interesting is when someone has accidentally used the wrong wire end for the coil. Not so common on TR6, but can happen on TR2-4 where the original coil took a nut ahd flat washer with the copper core wire soldered to the washer. Also just one of many problems I found on my TEA20 tractor smiling smiley



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

DerekM Avatar
DerekM Silver Member Derek McAllister
Toronto, ON, Canada   CAN
I had the same problem after checking my oil. I opened up the connectors on the wires (Bosch) a little to have them fit more snugly into the cap. I'm still not thrilled with the tightness of the connections there.



Derek McAllister
Toronto, Ontario
1974 TR6 Sapphire Blue/Shadow Blue

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Fogspawn, CA, USA   USA
1974 Triumph TR6 "Machine"
that too, oil, was part of reason i was ferreting about in engine bay.. oil consumption is
much reduced since I removed that accessory rocker feed oil line... I have witnesed my naked rockers..
the oil flows nicely without the extra oil line... one thing leads to another. I pulled three plugs to check their
condition... looked fine, but then double checked those plug and coil leads... mmm one thing leads to another.
found a loose one... it was a good day.
w

barry s Avatar
barry s Silver Member Barry Stoll
Alexandria, VA, USA   USA
1972 MG MGB GT
1974 MG MGB
1976 Triumph TR6
1980 MG MGB
I'd be trying to figure out how that supplemental oil line had anything to do with oil consumption, unless it was leaking. When I bought my 6 I quickly learned that the front end of the rocker assembly was being starved of oil resulting in a valve receding into the head. After spending $1K rebuilding the head and replacing various valve components I added the aux oil line.

Fogspawn, CA, USA   USA
1974 Triumph TR6 "Machine"
yeah, one wonders, did the rings suddnly seat?
I only know the reduction of oil consumption happened.
maybe more oil gets thru than necessary, and gets batted bout and sucked back to manifold
thru the pipe from valve cover, or batted about and then sucked back thru valve guide(s) into combustion chambers.
Not really know... the plugs have a consistent light brown
electrode and no crusty build up yet.
The car got by its first 30 thou without the line...I suspect the supplement line has a place
if one is spending a lot of time in the high revs (rallye, racing, or really hauling rpm down the freeway...)
but duffer like me can do without, no harm checking state of lubrication... either cover off or with
an endo camera(be careful)... from time to time.
I'm just glad not adding oil every tankful of gas.
w

TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
In reply to # 1534102 by barry s I'd be trying to figure out how that supplemental oil line had anything to do with oil consumption, unless it was leaking.
That's easy enough. These engines were designed without intake valve seals; meaning there is manifold vacuum trying to pull whatever is on top of the valve guide through the .003" (or larger if worn) gap between guide and stem. An occasional drop of oil gets through (to lube the guide), but mostly it sucks air. So oil past the guides tends to be minimal, even if the guides & stems are badly worn.

The rocker shaft is not designed to carry full gallery oil pressure, the original flow is deliberately limited by what amounts to a metering pump formed by the cam journal. It delivers a specific volume per cam revolution, at essentially no pressure at all. Takes some time for the shaft to fill, after that the oil just kind of oozes from each rocker at idle.

But the external feed applies full gallery oil pressure to the rockers (and the vent holes in the top of them); spraying a huge amount of oil up against the underside of the rocker cover. When I tried installing the oil feed on a previous TR3 motor (with the passage blocked), it not only sprayed oil against the hood but dumped probably a cupful overboard in just the time it took me to kill the engine. That oil both gets sucked past the intake guides, and also blown into the PCV vent from the rocker cover, where it eventually gets sucked into the carbs. On that TR3 motor, there was so much oil going past the (badly worn) guides that I literally got a warning from the California Air Resources Board.

The problem that the external feed is designed to work around arises because the rocker shaft (and the passages to it) tend to collect sludge, which eventually blocks the flow. I've worked on several engines, both TR6 and TR3/4, where the shaft was totally blocked, to the point I couldn't even force a wire through it!



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

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Fogspawn, CA, USA   USA
1974 Triumph TR6 "Machine"
Thank you, Randall, a very coherent explanation..something I couldn't quite put together.
leads me to one thought, the subject putting seals on valve stems comes up time to tome,
if the valve guides do rely on delivery of small amount oil this fashion, via stem action...
then why use valve stem seals at all..? Thank you again for this information...oil quantity is actually normally metered by cam journal... good enough for us duffers, probably not for the faster fraternity...
w

TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
It's all about getting just the right amount of oil into the right places, with minimal cost & complexity. I've only worked on a limited number of non-Triumph engines; but the ones with valve seals all used seals that didn't seal very well. My Chevy V6, for example, just had an O-ring that rode up and down with the valve stem, plus another O-ring that kept oil from flowing downward through the spring retainer assembly. And, much like the TR motors, there was not much oil in the rocker area to begin with. It fed quite small amounts of oil up through the pushrods (metered by the hydraulic lifters), which oozed onto the top of the rockers to splash on the pivots and valve stems.

IMO the really good seals are primarily for racing applications where long life is not relevant.



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

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