TRExp

TR6 Tech Forum

Clutch fluid flush help

Moss Motors
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor

JBG Ben G
Portland, ME, USA   USA
Hi All. My clutch engages very very close to the floor. To the point that there are times that im not quite sure i am fully engaging the clutch when i am shifting. My first thought was to bleed the clutch fluid but in thinking about that I realized i should probably just flush the whole system and start fresh. Problem is I dont know what fluid is in there currently (let alone how old it is etc.) Ive read lots of posts about switching to dot5 but dot3/4 doesnt mix with dot5 and so i dont know what to actually put back in once i remove the old fluid. The current color of the fluid is a yellowish/greenish color. My plan was to follow this procedure

https://72triumphtr6.wordpress.com/2015/04/29/flushing-brake-and-clutch-hydraulic-fluid-resetting-pdwa-to-fix-bright-lightoil-light-on/

But i believe there will be residual amounts of the old fluid still in the system. Any advice here?

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <
poolboy Avatar
poolboy Ken D
Sandy Hook, MS, USA   USA
While I'm not opposed to switching DOT's, you may be on the wrong track thinking that the system only needs to be bled.

Does pumping the clutch pedal multiple times in rapid succession result in a firmer feel requiring more pressure from you to fully depress the pedal ?

JBG Ben G
Portland, ME, USA   USA
Hey Ken. Yeah i very well could be on the wrong track but my thinking was that it should probably done anyway as a maintenance deal since i have no idea when it was last done. I just pumped the heck out of the clutch and felt no difference in pressure

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <
chris Avatar
chris Platinum Member Chris Roop
Pendleton, OR, USA   USA
Since you are bleeding/flushing the system, why not also rebuild the slave cylinder? It doesn't take much to kit one with the slave still in the car. As for which DOT, 5.0 is purple. There is a 5.1 which is unrelated to 5.0 that mixes with both 3 and 4.



Used parts are negotiable; they look better on your car than in my shop.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-16 10:13 AM by chris.


Member Services:
Used English car parts.
poolboy Avatar
poolboy Ken D
Sandy Hook, MS, USA   USA
Well I guess just go ahead with plans, Ben.
Just flush until you see purple DOT 5....Not DOT 5.1...being expelled from the slave cylinder bleed nipple...that's what I did...no problems.
But when you are down there see if your slave cylinder mounting looks like this.
Notice which side of the bracket and bell housing it bolts to and notice that the push rod is in the middle hole of the clutch shaft.
If you have all that and if the clutch still seems abnormal, you'll need to troubleshoot the real problem.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-16 10:11 AM by poolboy.


Attachments:
SlaveCylinder.jpg    13.1 KB
SlaveCylinder.jpg

JBG Ben G
Portland, ME, USA   USA
In reply to # 1533521 by poolboy But when you are down there see if your slave cylinder mounting looks like this.
Notice which side of the bracket and bell housing it bolts to and notice that the push rod is in the middle hole of the clutch shaft.
If you have all that and if the clutch still seems abnormal, you'll need to troubleshoot the real problem.

Thanks for the picture that helps. Here is what mine looks like, seems a little different than your picture no? https://photos.app.goo.gl/c4xb0Lhoda7Kpiu22

As for the part about seeming abnormal, thats the rub, I dont know what normal is. This is my first and only triumph and ive had it less than a year. I have heard that the clutch should engage very close to the floor, which mine does. It's so close to the floor sometimes i wonder if im getting it fully engaged. After driving a while i sometimes can smell a burnt smell that makes me wonder if its the clutch which is why i've started down this road in the first place

The only actual bad behavior that ive noticed is that sometimes to get into 1st gear after stopping at a light i have to push the clutch in twice. No grinding, just wont let me push it into first without mucho force. This doesnt always happen though and i hesistate to even mention it as i dont really think it has anything to do with the clutch engagement point.

poolboy Avatar
poolboy Ken D
Sandy Hook, MS, USA   USA
Looks the same to me, Ben..just the camera angle different...Anybody see it differently ?
My clutch engagement is smooth as the pedal rises. Disengagement as I depress the pedal is gradual as I think it should be.
I've heard that 'low to the floor' description from some people, but I don't find the clutch (other than the force of the pressure plate) different from anything else that I can recall.

JBG Ben G
Portland, ME, USA   USA
In reply to # 1533534 by poolboy Looks the same to me, Ben..just the camera angle different...Anybody see it differently ?

In your picture it looks liek the bolt closest to the camera isnt attached to anything, that was what i was thinking was different. I also just realized my terminology is backwards; when i press the clutch pedal that DISengages the clutch.

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <
poolboy Avatar
poolboy Ken D
Sandy Hook, MS, USA   USA
That's a nut...

JBG Ben G
Portland, ME, USA   USA
I assumed it was attached to a bolt?

edit: oh i see it now, yeah, really is just a differnt angle, my bad. I thought the bolt/nut closest to the camera was just hanging out in space but its a different connection than what i was picturing, ignore my post about that



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-16 10:56 AM by JBG.

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <
poolboy Avatar
poolboy Ken D
Sandy Hook, MS, USA   USA
It is threaded onto the bolt. The head of the bolt can be seen on the other side of the bracket.

thumbs up OK glad you saw it..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-16 11:11 AM by poolboy.

TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
FWIW, Ben's setup looks fine to me. The bellhousing has been repaired; but's that's probably not an issue.

Lack of clutch travel is a common complaint on these cars, with no single cause it seems. Just a combination of the factory not making much allowance for wear, combined with a lot of points that can wear over the years (not always in obvious ways).

I'm a big fan of DOT 5, but keep in mind that it will actually make the problem slightly worse, as it compresses just a tiny bit more under pressure than DOT 3/4 does. So like Ken said, it might be best to solve the problem first and then switch to DOT 5.

That said, nothing is going to "blow up" because you didn't get absolutely all traces of DOT 3/4 out of the system. They will co-exist, just not mix together. I've done it several times now by just bleeding through until clear purple fluid comes out, with good results.

Back to the clutch problem : the TR6 has synchromesh on 1st, so a dragging clutch may well make it hard to shift into 1st gear. In addition, it puts an extra load on the synchro rings (in all gears), leading to premature wear. One easy test you can do is to hold the pedal down normally, shift into a forward gear then while still holding the pedal down, shift back to neutral, wait a few seconds, then into reverse. If reverse grinds (no synchros here), you've got a clutch problem.

Top of the list IMO would be to check the thrust washer inside the engine. These engines are known for wearing it so badly that it falls out of place, leading to some fairly severe damage inside. So checking the crankshaft end play should be a regular maintenance item. Best to do this with a dial indicator (a cheap indicator and stand is only about $25 @ HF), but in a pinch you can depress and release the clutch (engine not running) then lever on the front pulley to move it backwards. If you can see it move (the clearance is only supposed to be .007" ), you've got a problem.

Next look at the pivot where the clutch pedal joins with the MC pushrod. Very common for this point to get overlooked for lubrication, result is that the pin and both holes wear oversize.

Watch the plastic line from the MC to the slave, while someone else operates the clutch. If it visibly swells, it probably needs to be replaced. Unless you are a purist, I suggest one of the aftermarket "braided SS" lines as they swell even less than a new original line (which gets a bit more travel at the clutch slave).

Unfortunately, looking at your photo, I have a suspicion you may be suffering one of the most frustrating problems. Inside the bellhousing, there is a taper pin that locates the clutch fork to the operating shaft. If that pin breaks (and they do), it lets the fork rotate on the shaft just a bit, just enough to cause problems with not enough clutch travel. See http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/clutch/ClutchShaft/ClutchShaft.htm for more details.



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-16 11:35 AM by TR3driver.

JBG Ben G
Portland, ME, USA   USA
Great info, thanks Randall. I will look into the things you mention. In the meantime i took a quick video of the slave as i depress the clutch pedal. Anything of interest here? https://photos.app.goo.gl/yoesmZTN4Ms6AQ5i2

Sapphire Avatar
Sapphire Walt P
York, PA, USA   USA
Have never done it this way, myself, but have read that the clutch system can be bled by opening the nipple on the slave cylinder, and as the fluid is dripping out the bottom, it can be replenished with new fluid into the reservoir.
When new fluid drips out, close the nipple and test the pedal feel.

Sounds simple enough, not requiring a helper to pump the pedal.

Of course, the taper pin issue is what one thinks of first when hearing of a clutch problem. A worst nightmare, for many.

However, I had a low clutch pedal years ago and by repeatedly bleeding the clutch got it back to normal (when the car entered my life it had really yucky fluid everywhere), so bon chance.



1972 CC80594U Sapphire Blue



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-16 11:56 AM by Sapphire.

BigChill Avatar
BigChill Silver Member Big Chill
Norwood, MA, USA   USA
As usual, Randall provides great information. (Lots of others do too.)

One thing he left out is simply measuring the amount of travel you get on the slave cylinder push rod. It is supposed to be 0.5" - 0.6" , not much. Which is why little losses from worn thrust washers and clevis pins cause so much difficulty.



Big Chill

'75 TR6 slowly coming back from the dead...

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <

To add your reply, or post your own questions




Registration is FREE and takes less than a minute!


Having trouble posting or changing forum settings?
Read the Forum Help (FAQ) or contact the webmaster





Join The Club

Sign in to ask questions, share photos, and access all website features

Your Cars

1976 Triumph Spitfire 1500

Text Size

Larger Smaller
Reset Save

Sponsor Links