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Clutch Question: Seems on or off and not much in between

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allzway Avatar
allzway James P
Paris, TX, USA   USA
I am trying to get this TR6 that has been stored for 25+ years back on the road again.

I replaced all of the clutch hydraulics and the clutch is working. I can shift through all of the gears. This is while on jack stands since I have not gotten it on the road yet.

The issue or possible issue is that the clutch is not smooth. It is stiff to push and it seems to be either engaged or disengaged and not much travel in between.

I think I have bled the slave enough.... did it a couple of times.

Any ideas if this is normal for these cars?

I searched the forums and found a lot of clutch issues, just nothing exactly describing my situation.

It may feel different on the ground, but just curious.

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TRoutMac Avatar
TRoutMac Pete Chadwell
Bend, Oregon, USA   USA
I don't think you'll be able to make a proper assessment until you get the car on the ground. Make sure that the slave cylinder pushrod is in the middle hole on the clutch release lever (hangs down from the bellhousing) and make sure that the slave cylinder's mounting ears are on the gearbox side of the slave cylinder mounting plate and then, while someone else works the clutch pedal, measure the travel at the slave cylinder pushrod. You should be getting about 5/8" of travel there. If that looks good, then put the car on the ground and test it.

By the way, TR6 clutches have always been considered rather stiff or heavy.

Good luck!

poolboy Avatar
poolboy Ken D
Sandy Hook, MS, USA   USA
What were the circumstances that caused the car to be taken off the road for 25 years ?

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TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
Have you seen this? http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/clutch/StickyClutch/StickyClutch.htm



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L Once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

allzway Avatar
allzway James P
Paris, TX, USA   USA
In reply to # 1518668 by poolboy What were the circumstances that caused the car to be taken off the road for 25 years ?

Ken.. This is the car you just rebuilt carbs for. The owner of the company I work for had acquired it from his step father after his passing away. It had been last registered and inspected in 1991 and stored in a warehouse with his collection of other cars. He mostly collects large Lincolns and Cadillacs and the tiny Triumph was his type of car.

I have always worked with TR7's and he knew that and made me a deal I couldn't pass on to own this TR6. I have it running good now with your help and it is shifting well, but I am working on the brakes at the moment, so it has not been on the ground since I have been working on it. I just noticed the stiff clutch and somewhat on/off nature and was curious if this was pretty normal.

I should have it back on the road in a few weeks now that the weather is getting better.

allzway Avatar
allzway James P
Paris, TX, USA   USA

No, but I will take a look at it.

allzway Avatar
allzway James P
Paris, TX, USA   USA
In reply to # 1518665 by TRoutMac I don't think you'll be able to make a proper assessment until you get the car on the ground. Make sure that the slave cylinder pushrod is in the middle hole on the clutch release lever (hangs down from the bellhousing) and make sure that the slave cylinder's mounting ears are on the gearbox side of the slave cylinder mounting plate and then, while someone else works the clutch pedal, measure the travel at the slave cylinder pushrod. You should be getting about 5/8" of travel there. If that looks good, then put the car on the ground and test it.

By the way, TR6 clutches have always been considered rather stiff or heavy.

Good luck!


Thanks.. I am in the middle hole and the cylinder on the correct side. It seems to work fine, just stiff and seems to have a spot where it takes a little more to push and where it seems to engage or disengage at that point.

Working on the brakes now, so maybe in a couple of weeks I will get to drop it and run it around the neighborhood.

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dicta dick Taylor
Downey, Callifornia, USA   USA
In reply to # 1518743 by allzway
In reply to # 1518665 by TRoutMac I don't think you'll be able to make a proper assessment until you get the car on the ground. Make sure that the slave cylinder pushrod is in the middle hole on the clutch release lever (hangs down from the bellhousing) and make sure that the slave cylinder's mounting ears are on the gearbox side of the slave cylinder mounting plate and then, while someone else works the clutch pedal, measure the travel at the slave cylinder pushrod. You should be getting about 5/8" of travel there. If that looks good, then put the car on the ground and test it.

By the way, TR6 clutches have always been considered rather stiff or heavy.

Good luck!


Thanks.. I am in the middle hole and the cylinder on the correct side. It seems to work fine, just stiff and seems to have a spot where it takes a little more to push and where it seems to engage or disengage at that point.

Working on the brakes now, so maybe in a couple of weeks I will get to drop it and run it around the neighborhood.

James --- Extra stiffness the last 1/2 inch of pedal travel is symptomatic of a broken fork pin at the clutch operating shaft. A broken pin shows up when the loss of mechanical advantage takes place. This usually puts the release point right at the floor. Sometimes the clutch won't disengage enough to shift into reverse or first gear. You will find out more on this when visiting the buckeye triumph web site on the subject.

Dick

TRoutMac Avatar
TRoutMac Pete Chadwell
Bend, Oregon, USA   USA
James:

When there is no resistance coming back through the drivetrain (as there is when the car is on the ground and inertia wants to keep the car from moving) it’s going to be hard to judge how abruptly the clutch is going to engage or disengage, possibly even where the release point really is in the pedal’s travel. For the same reasons, it’s going to be much easier to shift. Both the clutch and the gearbox’s job is MUCH easier when there’s no load.

Dick Taylor’s observation is valuable: If you can tell that the release point is very close to the end of pedal travel, then this should raise suspicion that the taper pin is broken. When you have the car on the ground, however, it’ll be much easier to assess those things.

If you discover a broken pin, resist the urge to simply replace it. There are a couple of ways to modify that so that it never happens again, and Buckeye Triumphs site has information on those. I noticed the other day that they’re using drawings I created years ago… I like that!! winking smiley

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mhbva Avatar
mhbva Marc Botzin
Lorton, VA, USA   USA
1976 Triumph TR6 "Monty"
You can sometimes tell if the taper pin is broken by the angle of the operating arm that should be nearly vertical.

I can tell you from having owned an almost new '71, that the clutch was noticeably stiffer than in my '76. There was a change in the bore of the clutch master cylinder at some point as noted in the Buckeye article to reduce the effort needed to operate the clutch.

Tote Tony M
Kingston, ON, Canada   CAN
I find my TR6 has a heavy clutch pedal when compared to a modern car with standard and yes behaves as an on/off clutch without much progression. Also, when shifting into 2nd, 3rd, or 4th and back again, I only need to tap the clutch to shift, no need to pin it too the floor.

poolboy Avatar
poolboy Ken D
Sandy Hook, MS, USA   USA
Some of the scenarios described just don't seem normal to me.
When I'm engaging the clutch as I allow the pedal to rise I can feel the pressure plate clamping the disc tighter and tighter until there is full engagement.
In normal driving the engagement movement is fast as it should be so as to avoid "riding the clutch" so the progression is less noticeable, if at all., but pulling off slowly in 1st or Reverse I can feel the progress of the engagement.

allzway Avatar
allzway James P
Paris, TX, USA   USA
I'll report back later. Currently replacing brake parts, so it will be a couple of weeks before I can drop it and take it for a spin to see if there is truly a clutch issue or not.

It just seems to me to be a little difficult mid-pedal and then pushes on through fine. It may just be stiffer than I was expecting or the pin could be an issue.

I read the buckeye page and that certainly could be the issue with the pin. I haven't had time to really look into it.

Tote Tony M
Kingston, ON, Canada   CAN
I plan on putting some anti-seize on the transmission input snout (or, whatever its called) so that the bearing holder has something to assist it in sliding forward. I figure all preventive measures have to be taken, because I'm tired of the annual transmission removal.

TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
You might consider using "dry moly" instead. Anti-seize generally contains a grease-like carrier, which can attract and trap dirt and clutch dust to eventually become sticky.
http://www.crcindustries.com/products/dry-moly-lube-11-wt-oz-03084.html

As described in one of the Buckeye articles, sometimes the TOB sleeve cocks and binds on the transmission nose, which could probably give a stiff spot as James describes. Another article runs through some of the many different clutches that have been sold for the TR6 at one time or another, with widely varying characteristics. There's also this: http://www.mntriumphs.org/aOLD/Tech_Info/Clutch%20Folder/clutch.pdf



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L Once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

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