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Release Bearing Sleeve Too Tight

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Triumphgt6er Avatar
Triumphgt6er Jim Snell
Cave Creek, AZ, USA   USA
1974 Triumph TR6 "Bubbles"
I recently purchased the MOSS upgraded clutch kit ( 593-038 ) . It comes with a bronze throw out bearing sleeve. The sleeve is so tight on the transmission front cover that I can only get it to slide about 1/2 way on and then it binds. There's no way it's going to "bed in" and loosen up. My old sleeve slides right on to the very bottom of the front cover and is nice and smooth.

I hate to go back to the old bearing and not use the "upgraded" bronze one. Wondering if I can get a flap wheel and take enough out of it to loosen things up? Also not super eager to return it and get yet another junk part.

This on the heels of a cr*p ring gear also from MOSS. that also doesn't fit. Really getting tired of the poor parts quality. Probably need to stick with TRF going forward.

Suggestions welcome...cylinder hone??



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-01-30 11:34 PM by Triumphgt6er.

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dicta dick Taylor
Downey, Callifornia, USA   USA
In reply to # 1510597 by Triumphgt6er I recently purchased the MOSS upgraded clutch kit ( 593-038 ) . It comes with a bronze throw out bearing sleeve. The sleeve is so tight on the transmission front cover that I can only get it to slide about 1/2 way on and then it binds. There's no way it's going to "bed in" and loosen up. My old sleeve slides right on to the very bottom of the front cover and is nice and smooth.

I hate to go back to the old bearing and not use the "upgraded" bronze one. Wondering if I can get a flap wheel and take enough out of it to loosen things up? Also not super eager to return it and get yet another junk part.

This on the heels of a cr*p ring gear also from MOSS. that also doesn't fit. Really getting tired of the poor parts quality. Probably need to stick with TRF going forward.

Suggestions welcome...cylinder hone??

If you have the tools, measure the ID of the new carrier and compare it to the OD of the front cover. See how much the carrier is undersize. You may be able to hone out a small amount. A better method would be to chuck it up in a lathe to do the job. Of course returning it to Moss is the best route in favor of one that fits. A call to Moss is in order. Tell them the ID of the carrier sleeve they sent you.

Dick

wbclassics Kai Radicke
Syracuse, NY, USA   USA
The ID of the Moss units tend to be 0.002" to 0.003" too small. They've been that way for years, and Moss has been told about it, they just don't care to fix it. Send it back to Moss.

In the USA, TRF is the only company that makes a bronze replacement sleeve that fits without further work.

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Triumphgt6er Avatar
Triumphgt6er Jim Snell
Cave Creek, AZ, USA   USA
1974 Triumph TR6 "Bubbles"
In reply to # 1510613 by wbclassics The ID of the Moss units tend to be 0.002" to 0.003" too small. They've been that way for years, and Moss has been told about it, they just don't care to fix it. Send it back to Moss.

In the USA, TRF is the only company that makes a bronze replacement sleeve that fits without further work.

Thanks Kai....good to have confirmation and that an exchange won't help the problem.

Triumphgt6er Avatar
Triumphgt6er Jim Snell
Cave Creek, AZ, USA   USA
1974 Triumph TR6 "Bubbles"
In reply to # 1510602 by dicta
In reply to # 1510597 by Triumphgt6er I recently purchased the MOSS upgraded clutch kit ( 593-038 ) . It comes with a bronze throw out bearing sleeve. The sleeve is so tight on the transmission front cover that I can only get it to slide about 1/2 way on and then it binds. There's no way it's going to "bed in" and loosen up. My old sleeve slides right on to the very bottom of the front cover and is nice and smooth.

I hate to go back to the old bearing and not use the "upgraded" bronze one. Wondering if I can get a flap wheel and take enough out of it to loosen things up? Also not super eager to return it and get yet another junk part.

This on the heels of a cr*p ring gear also from MOSS. that also doesn't fit. Really getting tired of the poor parts quality. Probably need to stick with TRF going forward.

Suggestions welcome...cylinder hone??

If you have the tools, measure the ID of the new carrier and compare it to the OD of the front cover. See how much the carrier is undersize. You may be able to hone out a small amount. A better method would be to chuck it up in a lathe to do the job. Of course returning it to Moss is the best route in favor of one that fits. A call to Moss is in order. Tell them the ID of the carrier sleeve they sent you.

Dick

Thanks Dick. I think MOSS must have "improved" their customer service. I tried calling them about the ring gear issue (ID was too big...slid right on). My experience with them was less than satisfactory. Here's what they had to say when I asked to talk to a Tech Support person so I could discuss the ID of the ring gear - I'm sure the sleeve issue will be the same response:
-They no longer let you talk directly to anyone from Tech Support; they are "behind the wall"...whatever that means.
-If I want Technical Support at MOSS I have 2 options. I can post a message on the forums because their tech people troll the forums (seems random) OR send them an email to the generic sales email address and they will route it to someone (hard to clarify or discuss anything).
-Or...just send the part back for a refund. Glad they're happy to exchange the part and/or refund my money. Doesn't help me solve the issue or ensure the next part doesn't have the same problem. Based on what Kai posted on this same thread....they've been told so my chance of success on a replacement is slim. Guess it's refund and go to TRF.
-Secondary note on the discussion with the MOSS sales guy when I called earlier this week. He definitely had a process/script he was following...there was no discussion and he cut me off time and time again with his standard response. They are starting to feel more and more like VB.

NHinNC Avatar
NHinNC Larry C
Greensboro, NC, USA   USA
Just another case of vendors not giving a damn except for profit. I have yet to deal with one of the Triumph vendors that has not sent me some crap, except for the fan motor vendor Holden, in the UK.



1976 TR6 Mimosa Yellow - not original
Purchased July 2015

Brett E Brett Evans
Columbus, OH, USA   USA
1973 Triumph TR6 "Scarlet Harlot"
I bought a bronze sleeve from TRF and it fit perfectly.

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Triumphgt6er Avatar
Triumphgt6er Jim Snell
Cave Creek, AZ, USA   USA
1974 Triumph TR6 "Bubbles"
In reply to # 1510710 by Brett E I bought a bronze sleeve from TRF and it fit perfectly.

Sure...rub it in!!

South San Frncisco, CA, USA   USA
i acquired same sleeve in my saga in 2013... same problem. judicious use of grit papers on both sleeve and gearbox nose
solved it.thinking that the supplier is sourcing parts for 50 year old mating lands... not surprised the ocassional misfit.
worse if the sleeve was too loose, then there is no making do.
the ring gear is painful and really slows your work...
i have good luck with suppliers goods, but aware they try projecting homey image, yet are evolving into the
insentient corporate animal , like evertywhere else, can hardly get a human on the line.
worse yet are failures of parts After you get the car rolling again.We love any excuse to remove powertrain
to correct disasters rooted in defective components.
w

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ng19delta Avatar
ng19delta Scott Roberts
Merchantville, NJ, USA   USA
1974 Triumph TR6 "Gypsy Rose T..."
One of the reasons I love owning a lathe... winking smiley

Personally, I stick with TRF whenever possible!

Scott

Be Coming Avatar
Be Coming Kelvin Dodd
So. Calif., USA   USA
In reply to # 1510629 by Triumphgt6er
Thanks Dick. I think MOSS must have "improved" their customer service. I tried calling them about the ring gear issue (ID was too big...slid right on). My experience with them was less than satisfactory. Here's what they had to say when I asked to talk to a Tech Support person so I could discuss the ID of the ring gear - I'm sure the sleeve issue will be the same response:
-They no longer let you talk directly to anyone from Tech Support; they are "behind the wall"...whatever that means.
-If I want Technical Support at MOSS I have 2 options. I can post a message on the forums because their tech people troll the forums (seems random) OR send them an email to the generic sales email address and they will route it to someone (hard to clarify or discuss anything).
-Or...just send the part back for a refund. Glad they're happy to exchange the part and/or refund my money. Doesn't help me solve the issue or ensure the next part doesn't have the same problem. Based on what Kai posted on this same thread....they've been told so my chance of success on a replacement is slim. Guess it's refund and go to TRF.
-Secondary note on the discussion with the MOSS sales guy when I called earlier this week. He definitely had a process/script he was following...there was no discussion and he cut me off time and time again with his standard response. They are starting to feel more and more like VB.

Hello Jim. First off, sorry that you have run into fit issues. We are working hard to keep that to a minimum.
I am in the Moss tech department, as you have probably figured out as I replied to your e-mail regarding the flywheel ring gear. Also coincidentally, I'm in contact with Jeff Zorn at Little British Car Company, from whom you purchased the clutch kit regarding the throw out sleeve.
Neither issue is "known" to us, as Kai stated. The last complaint we have filed about a sleeve being too small was in 2013. If there is a problem with a part, we want to know about it so we can push back against the manufacturer to get it right. We have a process to do that and it starts with getting accurate information and having the time to process it.
Based on your experience with sales, we are reviewing our training as we want to get the correct message across at a time when our customer's are stressing. When we started advertising technical support, we found we were inundated by telephone calls to the point that the tech answering machine would have over a hundred messages and there was no way to get back to customers in a realistic time frame. Now, tech calls are routed to the sales department which has a larger staff and longer hours. Many questions that were coming into the tech line can be answered quickly by sales, as the people on the lines were hired partly because they are gearheads and have an interest in vehicles. If the sales staff cannot answer the question, they are required to gather as much information as possible to make researching the problem easier. Basics, such as a good return contact number/e-mail, name, part number, invoice number if available, so we have a clue on when the part was purchased allowing us to look at sales/return history effectively.

The tech department is handling a lot of requests, from professional installers who have been in the business for years, to neophytes who have no clue how a bullet connector works. Product quality issues are given a priority, as a bad part will cause repeat problems. Offering a 24 month warranty on all parts becomes really expensive if the part has a quality problem and that doesn't begin to address the loss of customer faith in the company and the British car hobby as a whole. When we get a report, such as the one you submitted, the first tool we have is sales history. If the part is popular, such as the flywheel ring gear, we look to see if we have had other complaints, which is where the date of sale becomes critical. We also look at problem reports. A lot of times, we get overwhelmed with issues, but we try to document problems and store those documents in a file under the part number. That gives us a history that we can refer back to. Changes in sourcing, whether vendor or manufacturer can throw a wrench in the works, but all of the information is useful, if it is compared to purchasing and sales history. This in a nutshell is why telephone calls are not just transferred to the Moss tech department. First off, there would probably not be anyone free to answer. Second a lot of tech time would be wasted chasing down basic information, such as date of sale, etc. These questions are better handled by the sales department, allowing the tech guys to wander around with wrinkled foreheads and calipers in their hands. This means the response is not going to be immediate, but we try to contact customers within the same day if at all possible. Getting back to customers is the highest priority, which means the follow up of documenting problems, setting up corrective action reports and contacting the supplier/manufacturer is being done between customer contacts and in the background.

In your case, Jim. We have two parts that have dimensional issues. Trying to figure out what is going on is not simple. The TR6 front cover nose should have a dimension of 1.675". The 596-026 bronze sleeve, I pulled from stock has an ID of 1.683" and it appears to have been machine honed to that size. It would be helpful to know what the dimension of your front cover nose is and whether it has any taper. Likewise it would be helpful to get a measurement of the sleeve you purchased. You have my direct e-mail address, if you want to contact me directly rather than me having to work through your supplier.

You have sent back the ring gear, which you bought directly from us. I have it flagged to be measured and we will bring in a Spit/Mid/TR flywheel, so we can get an accurate measurement of the tolerance. At this time, I have no idea if the problem was that unique gear, or if we need to check all our inventory.

We are trying to find a balance between being responsive to customer's questions and being able to get accurate and timely solutions to resolving manufacturing and supply issues for cars that are now at least 38 years old.

best regards

Kelvin Dodd
A member of the Moss Tech Team

Triumphgt6er Avatar
Triumphgt6er Jim Snell
Cave Creek, AZ, USA   USA
1974 Triumph TR6 "Bubbles"
Thanks Kelvin...appreciate the response and direct contact. Good idea to check the training on the sales line. I was instructed to post my issue in the forum and told the Tech Support guys monitor the forms and will likely respond there. Seemed odd to me that Moss would encourage people to do so...over time the only impact of that is to increase the visibility of problems and ultimately give Moss a reputation for issues. Every vendor encounters problems - it happens. Using a public forum for tech support only highlights the normal issues.

On the ring gear problem...that one is headed back to you guys shortly for a refund so you can measure it upon receipt. On the sleeve, I don't a mic that big, but will see if I can borrow one. I can tell you that I have 2 transmissions for my TR6 - one that's going back in the car; one that's taking up space in my shed. The sleeve binds the exact same way on both. My old sleeve fits well and the same on both. I have no reason to believe the front cover nose on either transmission is abnormal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-02 11:32 AM by Triumphgt6er.

dicta dick Taylor
Downey, Callifornia, USA   USA
In reply to # 1511017 by Be Coming
In reply to # 1510629 by Triumphgt6er
Thanks Dick. I think MOSS must have "improved" their customer service. I tried calling them about the ring gear issue (ID was too big...slid right on). My experience with them was less than satisfactory. Here's what they had to say when I asked to talk to a Tech Support person so I could discuss the ID of the ring gear - I'm sure the sleeve issue will be the same response:
-They no longer let you talk directly to anyone from Tech Support; they are "behind the wall"...whatever that means.
-If I want Technical Support at MOSS I have 2 options. I can post a message on the forums because their tech people troll the forums (seems random) OR send them an email to the generic sales email address and they will route it to someone (hard to clarify or discuss anything).
-Or...just send the part back for a refund. Glad they're happy to exchange the part and/or refund my money. Doesn't help me solve the issue or ensure the next part doesn't have the same problem. Based on what Kai posted on this same thread....they've been told so my chance of success on a replacement is slim. Guess it's refund and go to TRF.
-Secondary note on the discussion with the MOSS sales guy when I called earlier this week. He definitely had a process/script he was following...there was no discussion and he cut me off time and time again with his standard response. They are starting to feel more and more like VB.

Hello Jim. First off, sorry that you have run into fit issues. We are working hard to keep that to a minimum.
I am in the Moss tech department, as you have probably figured out as I replied to your e-mail regarding the flywheel ring gear. Also coincidentally, I'm in contact with Jeff Zorn at Little British Car Company, from whom you purchased the clutch kit regarding the throw out sleeve.
Neither issue is "known" to us, as Kai stated. The last complaint we have filed about a sleeve being too small was in 2013. If there is a problem with a part, we want to know about it so we can push back against the manufacturer to get it right. We have a process to do that and it starts with getting accurate information and having the time to process it.
Based on your experience with sales, we are reviewing our training as we want to get the correct message across at a time when our customer's are stressing. When we started advertising technical support, we found we were inundated by telephone calls to the point that the tech answering machine would have over a hundred messages and there was no way to get back to customers in a realistic time frame. Now, tech calls are routed to the sales department which has a larger staff and longer hours. Many questions that were coming into the tech line can be answered quickly by sales, as the people on the lines were hired partly because they are gearheads and have an interest in vehicles. If the sales staff cannot answer the question, they are required to gather as much information as possible to make researching the problem easier. Basics, such as a good return contact number/e-mail, name, part number, invoice number if available, so we have a clue on when the part was purchased allowing us to look at sales/return history effectively.

The tech department is handling a lot of requests, from professional installers who have been in the business for years, to neophytes who have no clue how a bullet connector works. Product quality issues are given a priority, as a bad part will cause repeat problems. Offering a 24 month warranty on all parts becomes really expensive if the part has a quality problem and that doesn't begin to address the loss of customer faith in the company and the British car hobby as a whole. When we get a report, such as the one you submitted, the first tool we have is sales history. If the part is popular, such as the flywheel ring gear, we look to see if we have had other complaints, which is where the date of sale becomes critical. We also look at problem reports. A lot of times, we get overwhelmed with issues, but we try to document problems and store those documents in a file under the part number. That gives us a history that we can refer back to. Changes in sourcing, whether vendor or manufacturer can throw a wrench in the works, but all of the information is useful, if it is compared to purchasing and sales history. This in a nutshell is why telephone calls are not just transferred to the Moss tech department. First off, there would probably not be anyone free to answer. Second a lot of tech time would be wasted chasing down basic information, such as date of sale, etc. These questions are better handled by the sales department, allowing the tech guys to wander around with wrinkled foreheads and calipers in their hands. This means the response is not going to be immediate, but we try to contact customers within the same day if at all possible. Getting back to customers is the highest priority, which means the follow up of documenting problems, setting up corrective action reports and contacting the supplier/manufacturer is being done between customer contacts and in the background.

In your case, Jim. We have two parts that have dimensional issues. Trying to figure out what is going on is not simple. The TR6 front cover nose should have a dimension of 1.675". The 596-026 bronze sleeve, I pulled from stock has an ID of 1.683" and it appears to have been machine honed to that size. It would be helpful to know what the dimension of your front cover nose is and whether it has any taper. Likewise it would be helpful to get a measurement of the sleeve you purchased. You have my direct e-mail address, if you want to contact me directly rather than me having to work through your supplier.

You have sent back the ring gear, which you bought directly from us. I have it flagged to be measured and we will bring in a Spit/Mid/TR flywheel, so we can get an accurate measurement of the tolerance. At this time, I have no idea if the problem was that unique gear, or if we need to check all our inventory.

We are trying to find a balance between being responsive to customer's questions and being able to get accurate and timely solutions to resolving manufacturing and supply issues for cars that are now at least 38 years old.

best regards

Kelvin Dodd
A member of the Moss Tech Team

Kelvin --- I have two (used) front covers under the bench. The unworn area back by the flange measures 1.685. Herein may lie the problem, if your supplier has a carrier sleeve of 1.683.
Others may decide to measure the one(s) they have for comparison. Or check your new stock of front covers?

Dick

Be Coming Avatar
Be Coming Kelvin Dodd
So. Calif., USA   USA
Jim, thanks our call center manager will be bringing that subject up in the next sales meeting. We all need to hone our skills. Again, sorry you ran into this. I'll get back to you on what we find on the ring gear. I'm hoping it's an isolated problem.

Dick - Yes, that would explain the problem. I haven't had a chance to check OE samples yet, I'm just comparing the new trans front covers we had in stock in VA. They met the spec we had in the computer and fit the sleeves. That spec could very well be incorrect. In which case we need to get both parts corrected.

edit - I just checked an exploded TR3 box we have in lock up. The nose measure 1.683" with a caliper (I know, not the most accurate). Using a snap gauge, rather than a caliper, I'm getting 1.685 on this collar and it does fit over the TR3 shaft. It would be nice to have an inside micrometer, but I'll have to go mug an engineer to get that.

Kelvin.

wbclassics Kai Radicke
Syracuse, NY, USA   USA
In reply to # 1511017 by Be Coming

Hello Jim. First off, sorry that you have run into fit issues. We are working hard to keep that to a minimum.
I am in the Moss tech department, as you have probably figured out as I replied to your e-mail regarding the flywheel ring gear. Also coincidentally, I'm in contact with Jeff Zorn at Little British Car Company, from whom you purchased the clutch kit regarding the throw out sleeve.
Neither issue is "known" to us, as Kai stated. The last complaint we have filed about a sleeve being too small was in 2013. If there is a problem with a part, we want to know about it so we can push back against the manufacturer to get it right. We have a process to do that and it starts with getting accurate information and having the time to process it.
Based on your experience with sales, we are reviewing our training as we want to get the correct message across at a time when our customer's are stressing. When we started advertising technical support, we found we were inundated by telephone calls to the point that the tech answering machine would have over a hundred messages and there was no way to get back to customers in a realistic time frame. Now, tech calls are routed to the sales department which has a larger staff and longer hours. Many questions that were coming into the tech line can be answered quickly by sales, as the people on the lines were hired partly because they are gearheads and have an interest in vehicles. If the sales staff cannot answer the question, they are required to gather as much information as possible to make researching the problem easier. Basics, such as a good return contact number/e-mail, name, part number, invoice number if available, so we have a clue on when the part was purchased allowing us to look at sales/return history effectively.

The tech department is handling a lot of requests, from professional installers who have been in the business for years, to neophytes who have no clue how a bullet connector works. Product quality issues are given a priority, as a bad part will cause repeat problems. Offering a 24 month warranty on all parts becomes really expensive if the part has a quality problem and that doesn't begin to address the loss of customer faith in the company and the British car hobby as a whole. When we get a report, such as the one you submitted, the first tool we have is sales history. If the part is popular, such as the flywheel ring gear, we look to see if we have had other complaints, which is where the date of sale becomes critical. We also look at problem reports. A lot of times, we get overwhelmed with issues, but we try to document problems and store those documents in a file under the part number. That gives us a history that we can refer back to. Changes in sourcing, whether vendor or manufacturer can throw a wrench in the works, but all of the information is useful, if it is compared to purchasing and sales history. This in a nutshell is why telephone calls are not just transferred to the Moss tech department. First off, there would probably not be anyone free to answer. Second a lot of tech time would be wasted chasing down basic information, such as date of sale, etc. These questions are better handled by the sales department, allowing the tech guys to wander around with wrinkled foreheads and calipers in their hands. This means the response is not going to be immediate, but we try to contact customers within the same day if at all possible. Getting back to customers is the highest priority, which means the follow up of documenting problems, setting up corrective action reports and contacting the supplier/manufacturer is being done between customer contacts and in the background.

In your case, Jim. We have two parts that have dimensional issues. Trying to figure out what is going on is not simple. The TR6 front cover nose should have a dimension of 1.675". The 596-026 bronze sleeve, I pulled from stock has an ID of 1.683" and it appears to have been machine honed to that size. It would be helpful to know what the dimension of your front cover nose is and whether it has any taper. Likewise it would be helpful to get a measurement of the sleeve you purchased. You have my direct e-mail address, if you want to contact me directly rather than me having to work through your supplier.

You have sent back the ring gear, which you bought directly from us. I have it flagged to be measured and we will bring in a Spit/Mid/TR flywheel, so we can get an accurate measurement of the tolerance. At this time, I have no idea if the problem was that unique gear, or if we need to check all our inventory.

We are trying to find a balance between being responsive to customer's questions and being able to get accurate and timely solutions to resolving manufacturing and supply issues for cars that are now at least 38 years old.

best regards

Kelvin Dodd
A member of the Moss Tech Team

Kelvin, that is a load of corporate BS you posted. I've made complaints through my Moss sales person about products, and quite often it doesn't seem to go anywhere. Perhaps public shaming is the only thing that prompts Moss into action.

The issue with the bronze throw out bearing sleeves is known, or at least it has been reported (you acknowledge a complaint in 2013, and yet no QC process was put in place to insure future inventory had proper fit!). Maybe the reports get filed to the round bin that gets emptied at the end of the day by the janitorial staff. For overseas customers, the Moss bronze sleeves from Moss UK are same, and Rimmer Brothers also has sourced this sleeve from Moss. It is clear they all were from the same source, as they all had the same ID fit issue, as well as some other machining tool marks indicating the same origin manufacturer. Every single bronze sleeve we have received from Moss USA / Moss Europe / Rimmers had the same issue. Which is why under the purchasing notes for this product in our purchasing software I have a note that says "TRF has correct ID and better wholesale price than Moss, Rimmer ones come from Moss." I put that note into the product file sometime around 2014/2015.

There are only two suppliers world-wide that have ever committed a cardinal sin to me. Moss USA and Bastuck. Both Moss USA and Bastuck are guilty of sending me items that I had returned from previous orders for quality issues. These items had my notes regarding quality written in Sharpie black marker on the offending part, in addition to the required return slip information when the item(s) were originally returned. So when either company talks about quality, I just laugh, knowing that returned parts with documented quality problems go back onto the shelf and are resold to whomever orders them next... even months later!

I've been a wholesale distributor customer of Moss' for 15 years, I now go out of my way not to buy anything from Moss USA. The last straw was in 2015 or 2016, when someone in your tech department acknowledged and verified that the front TR6 transmission thrust washers were bowed from the stamping process by 0.003-0.007" (which matched what I measured across the units I was receiving), this is about half of the specified endfloat range for the laygear. His solution was to tell me sand the bronze contact face until it was flat, which is an absurd solution for a thrust washer. Not to mention it still leaves the backside concave, with no ability to flat that due to the protruding location and anti-rotation tab.

Our labor rate for regular shop labor is $100/hour, when will Moss start compensating me for the time we have to put into correct their defective products? Since they're unlikely to do so, I simply don't order from Moss except very occasionally. I may be the most vocal wholesale customer about these problems, but every other shop I know has the same complaints... at least for the enthusiasts doing this as a hobby, bad parts tend to be an occasional inconvenience. For those of us in the business, it is a daily occurrence that hurts our bottom line.

Kelvin, now that you've hopefully read all of that, rather than skipping to the end, at least your initial reply contained enough information to figure out where Moss went wrong. As Dick noted, the snout dimension is 1.685". I measured three original samples and actually came up with 1.6857" to 1.6867" in an unworn / unpolished area on three original snouts. Moss' reference data is off by 0.010" and no one at Moss thought to verify that years ago before you started producing this part? Also, on exactly zero of the Moss bronze sleeves, have I seen a honed finish on the ID. They all have lathe turned ID finishes. If you have one with a honed ID, it is probably because someone tried to fix it, and gave up when they realized it was going to take an hour to remove the material necessary.

Kelvin's declaration of the wrong ID snout dimension also scuttles his statement that they've only received one complaint on these. ALL of the units Moss would have manufactured would have been wrong, and every customer they sold one too would have encountered this problem unless also purchasing a matching wrongly manufactured new front snout from Moss. Is Kelvin trying to tell us that the majority of purchasers also bought the new snout covers with the smaller OD? That would be absurd... this means the majority of the bronze sleeve Moss has sold do not fit in almost every case!

BTW, someone also made a comment stating that it is a good thing the sleeves aren't too loose. There are steel sleeves on the market that have excessive ID clearances. We've received steel sleeves with an ID of 1.708", which is over 0.020" clearance to the snout. We have two samples of these on hand from another vendor (not Moss)... they're in my library of bad quality parts.

Kai @ WBC

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