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TR6 clutch release bearing

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TR6 clutch release bearing
#1
  This topic is about my 1973 Triumph TR6
Brett E Avatar
Brett E Brett Evans
Columbus, OH, USA   USA
1973 Triumph TR6 "Scarlet Harlot"
I have to replace the clutch on my 1973 TR6 and I'm trying to settle on which throw out bearing to use. Everyone says that the original RHP bearings are no longer reliable and it seems all of the parts suppliers are pushing the Koyo. The Buckeye Triumphs website clearly demonstrates that this bearing is not suitable because it will eat thru the clutch fingers.
I've recently found a Timken bearing that was used for the TR4A. Since replacement bearing sleeves are the same for both cars is there any reason why the Timken bearing wouldn't work on a TR6 application?



Nostalgia is the longing for things that never were

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dicta dick Taylor
Downey, Callifornia, USA   USA
In reply to # 1439437 by Brett E I have to replace the clutch on my 1973 TR6 and I'm trying to settle on which throw out bearing to use. Everyone says that the original RHP bearings are no longer reliable and it seems all of the parts suppliers are pushing the Koyo. The Buckeye Triumphs website clearly demonstrates that this bearing is not suitable because it will eat thru the clutch fingers.
I've recently found a Timken bearing that was used for the TR4A. Since replacement bearing sleeves are the same for both cars is there any reason why the Timken bearing wouldn't work on a TR6 application?

Brett --- Many have used the KOYO throwout bearing in the TR6 as a replacement for the original style RHP. While it is a heavier bearing (more difficult to get it spinning from rest) I doubt that it would wear thru the clutch fingers before many, many miles have gone by. One could always preload the bearing to get it turning with the clutch at all times, but that opens up other concerns.
I don't know where you would use the Timken bearing. On both ends of the clutch operating shaft?

Dick

Brett E Avatar
Brett E Brett Evans
Columbus, OH, USA   USA
1973 Triumph TR6 "Scarlet Harlot"
The Timken bearing 2065 is a throw out bearing and installs on the sleeve the same way as the RHP. It is being sold as an original replacement part for the TR4A. The bearing sleeves on both cars are the same except the TR4A's was bronze and the TR6's was steel. Replacement bronze sleeves fit both cars and have the same part #



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dicta dick Taylor
Downey, Callifornia, USA   USA
In reply to # 1439451 by Brett E The Timken bearing 2065 is a throw out bearing and installs on the sleeve the same way as the RHP. It is being sold as an original replacement part for the TR4A. The bearing sleeves on both cars are the same except the TR4A's was bronze and the TR6's was steel. Replacement bronze sleeves fit both cars and have the same part #

From the way you describe it, it may work. Since no one else to my knowledge has tried it, you could be the first! Let us know if you go this route, and how you like it!

Dick

Brett E Avatar
Brett E Brett Evans
Columbus, OH, USA   USA
1973 Triumph TR6 "Scarlet Harlot"
Thanks for the replies Dick, I found the bearing by accident and I'm tempted to try it. Timken makes high quality bearings. I'm not exactly sure but I think The TR4A used ths same clutch as the TR250 and early TR6 before Triumph switched from Borg & Beck to Laycock. Since both clutches were interchangable I don't know why it wouldn't work. I was just wondering if anyone else had tried it.



Nostalgia is the longing for things that never were

Brett E Avatar
Brett E Brett Evans
Columbus, OH, USA   USA
1973 Triumph TR6 "Scarlet Harlot"
I just received the Timken 2065 bearing from Rock Auto--$15.00 plus shipping. It came in a Timken box but the marking on the bearing says U.S.A. AETNA A-2256. It is a large flat faced bearing. It will press on the bronze sleeve and turns easily once mounted.
Now I have to decide which clutch to try with it. I've recently read on several sites that a flat faced bearing should be used with a bent finger clutch plate but I believe the Gunst bearing was also flat faced and had problems with the bent finger Borg & Beck. As I recall, Gunst recommended his bearing to be used with the LuK clutch, so I was thinking I would go that route.



Nostalgia is the longing for things that never were

dicta dick Taylor
Downey, Callifornia, USA   USA
In reply to # 1441075 by Brett E I just received the Timken 2065 bearing from Rock Auto--$15.00 plus shipping. It came in a Timken box but the marking on the bearing says U.S.A. AETNA A-2256. It is a large flat faced bearing. It will press on the bronze sleeve and turns easily once mounted.
Now I have to decide which clutch to try with it. I've recently read on several sites that a flat faced bearing should be used with a bent finger clutch plate but I believe the Gunst bearing was also flat faced and had problems with the bent finger Borg & Beck. As I recall, Gunst recommended his bearing to be used with the LuK clutch, so I was thinking I would go that route.

Brett --- I believe Mr. Gunst recommended the Luk because some heard "whistling" when using the Borg & Beck clutch. However, I used the Gunst with the B&B with no such annoyance (and I'm sensitive to unwanted noises). Take your choice?

Dick

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Brett E Avatar
Brett E Brett Evans
Columbus, OH, USA   USA
1973 Triumph TR6 "Scarlet Harlot"
One other question that comes to mind is whether or not I should install the anti-rotation pin in the bronze bearing sleeve Moss not to install the pin. While I can see that this might help a stiff bearing to turn more easily, it occurs to me that this might create more issues. First, by allowing the sleeve to spin freely it then becomes a bearing of sorts in it's own right, I wonder if the steel gearbox front cover that it fits on would eventually wear the softer inside surface of the sleeve, or if the steel locating pins on the fork would do the same to the groove. Wear could introduce slop and misalignment. I also wonder if the sleeve rotating on the cover would generate heat which might transfer to the bearing. Lastly, I wonder if the sleeve's rotation could introduce noise and vibration.
I realize I'm probably over thinking this, just wondering what the general opinion is.



Nostalgia is the longing for things that never were

poolboy Avatar
poolboy Ken D
Sandy Hook, MS, USA   USA
Maybe some else can but I can't think of any reason not to install an anti rotation pin.

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dicta dick Taylor
Downey, Callifornia, USA   USA
In reply to # 1441242 by Brett E One other question that comes to mind is whether or not I should install the anti-rotation pin in the bronze bearing sleeve Moss not to install the pin. While I can see that this might help a stiff bearing to turn more easily, it occurs to me that this might create more issues. First, by allowing the sleeve to spin freely it then becomes a bearing of sorts in it's own right, I wonder if the steel gearbox front cover that it fits on would eventually wear the softer inside surface of the sleeve, or if the steel locating pins on the fork would do the same to the groove. Wear could introduce slop and misalignment. I also wonder if the sleeve rotating on the cover would generate heat which might transfer to the bearing. Lastly, I wonder if the sleeve's rotation could introduce noise and vibration.
I realize I'm probably over thinking this, just wondering what the general opinion is.

Brett --- You got it right! The sleeve is not a bearing and while it will relieve some of the spin-up time on the bearing, that's not it's purpose. Go with the anti-spin pin. A little wear created by the steel pins on the fork don't amount to much in the clutch operation.
For an in depth look at most things clutch related, visit the buckeyetriumph.org web site.

Dick

DEEFIR DAVE ROBBINS
CHICAGO, IL, USA   USA
Brett, I'm in a similar situation. i hate to throw away a not-so-old B&B clutch, plus the supercharger on mine makes using the Sachs a questionable choice. But i also am not a fan of purchasing sub-par materials.

How did the Timken work, and what mods (if any) did you need to do?

Brett E Avatar
Brett E Brett Evans
Columbus, OH, USA   USA
1973 Triumph TR6 "Scarlet Harlot"
I'm actually installing it this weekend. The bearing pressed onto the bronze sleeve with the TRF tool. The LuK clutch kit I got came with an uprated RHP bearing. Both bearings appear similar in size. I'm also installing a new cross shaft with grease fittings and longer bushings. Had the cross shaft drilled for a 1/4 inch bolt ($25.00 at my local machine shop). While I'm in there I'm going to replace the rear main engine oil seal and both prop shaft u-joints
I'm going to install this without any modifications to the slave cylinder and no extra springs. I want to see if this is a suitable replacement as is, so it's kind of an experiment.



Nostalgia is the longing for things that never were

Tote Tony M
Kingston, ON, Canada   CAN
Wish you the best with that job. See my post under "What I did today" to see my flywheel removal/ring gear replacement. Check your ring gear for "trueness" and any grind marks, you don't want to replace it once you have buttoned up things.

Pointers:
1. top central stud on engine back plate is important to assist bell housing onto engine back plate;
2. torque values for flywheel bolts to crank in Haynes was 40 ft/lbs, then I checked another manual that said 65 ft/lbs and another said Bentleys had 70 ft/lbs. So I torqued at 65 ft/lbs with red thread lock on the bolts. Thought 40 ft/lbs seemed too little;
3. Why 17 bolts to hold the bell housing onto the engine plate?!!!!!
4. good time to replace the starter motor too, if your in doubt.

Any questions, just ask?

Brett E Avatar
Brett E Brett Evans
Columbus, OH, USA   USA
1973 Triumph TR6 "Scarlet Harlot"
Thanks for the tips Tony. When my clutch went out I searched long and hard for the right kit to use. I read the Buckeye Triumph articles and the forums. It's difficult because so many people have have good or bad luck using the same components. The original RHP bearings have a suspect reputation and the Koyo wasn't really designed for our cars and has it's own set of issues. I wanted to find an alternative. I knew that Timken makes top quality wheel bearings and were original equipment on Triumphs. I decided to find out if they made clutch throwout bearings and found this one. At only 15.00 from Rock Auto it was worth giving it a try. Compare the cost to both RHP and Koyo. I'm a firm believer that just because something is expensive doesn't mean it's better
I have often thought that the people in our hobby are sometimes taken advantage of with the promise of "uprated" parts that are of lower quality than the originals. Even the "originals" aren't made to the quality that they once were. I have the highest admiration for guys out there that can maintain their cars at a high level through innovation and experience. If this works maybe I can say I contributed to the cause in some small way.



Nostalgia is the longing for things that never were

Tote Tony M
Kingston, ON, Canada   CAN
Interesting that your car is a 1973, yet built in October 1972, while mine a 1972 was built only one month before in September 1972. I guess we know where the cut off and start date is for a new TR6 production year.

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