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Brake Squeal - Baby I'm howlin' for you!!!

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Darth V8R Avatar
Darth V8R Vance Navarrette
Beaverton, OR, USA   USA
1980 Triumph TR7 Drophead "The Great Pumpkin"
1980 Triumph TR8 "Wedgie"
Fellow wedge-heads:

Working through more issues on the Great Pumpkin. High RPM stutter is solved, time to move on to some other items.

The front brakes howl like banshees. Like the howling spirit of Irish mythology, my front brakes seem to be possessed.

Dug into them today - the pads are new, the shims are in place, the rotors look very serviceable. The PO tried to fix them by putting masking tape on the back of the shims, it seems. The car came with a new set of rotors, and a new set of front pads, so the PO was dealing with the issue prior to my purchase of the car. The brake fluid on the car is very fresh, and there are what appear to be new front brake hoses.

I am thinking perhaps some brake squeal goo might help? This is the snot-like stuff you smear on the back of the brake pads to damp the squealing sounds. You let it dry, and it forms a rubber like layer between the pad and the piston.

What have others done, and how successful were you in getting the problem under control?

Thanks for any suggestions,

Vance



1980 Platinum Metallic TR8, frame off restoration, complete.
1980 Vermilion TR7 Sprint replica, in progress.

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robtr8 Rob Stephenson
Lake St Louis, MO, USA   USA
Couple things:

Are you still on stock brakes or have you upgraded to Wilwood's?

A Beemer trick is to score the surface of the rotor with a bunch of crosshatch scratches.

Or you can try a different compound.
I tried a bunch of different stock caliper compounds to get the right amount of grip but no brake poop and was ultimately unsuccessful.

I'm currently on Wilwood Q matrix with Glenn's front brake upgrade kit. Too early to tell about the poop but so far they are quiet and easily modulated.
The upgrade is well worth your time and $.



1980 TR8 - MBT-RX, Overdrive Plus, GM-D9605, GS62, TS-SW2502S4 (2X), Glenn's Wilwood kit, Ted's everything else.
2006 XC90 V8 - AVH3300NEX, PDX-F4 (2X), PDX-M12, GB10, GB25, AR6K, GB12D4 (2X), Craven, IPD.
2008 328xi - AVH7800BT, GM-D8604, GM-D9605, MT230, GB40, XE 200, Primo 12"
2011 XC60 T6 RD - She won't let me.

TR8todd Avatar
TR8todd Todd Kishbach
Mass, USA   USA
1977 Triumph TR7 "Rally Fraud"
1978 Triumph TR8
1979 Triumph TR7
1980 Triumph TR8    & more
Apply some CRC disc brake quiet or similar. Sand down rotors and pads to remove any pad glazing. Bevel leading edge of pad where it first contacts rotor. Clean up slots in pads where they slide in caliper. If they bind because of too much paint and crap, they vibrate and squeel like a string on a guitar. If all of this doesn't do it, buy a Wilwood kit from Glen.

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bkwanab Phil Grice
Florence, OR, USA   USA
1980 Triumph TR7 Drophead "Black Knight Wannabe"
I agree with Todd Kishbach comments with one addition. If that does not totally solve the problem try finding some organic pads. I have found in the past that they resonate less. You should still take the actions Todd suggests anyway. The organic (green) pads will not last as long but the give great response and excellent feel. However, when I decided the small disks were insufficient for brisk driving in my automatic Buick V6 powered TR7 Spyder, I installed the biggest Wilwoods that 15" MGF rims would permit. No squeal. Great brakes.

Darth V8R Avatar
Darth V8R Vance Navarrette
Beaverton, OR, USA   USA
1980 Triumph TR7 Drophead "The Great Pumpkin"
1980 Triumph TR8 "Wedgie"
Thanks everybody.

Some great suggestions. I will be trying one or more until I get this under control.

And yes, they are stock TR7 brakes. Wimpy by today's standards.

Vance



1980 Platinum Metallic TR8, frame off restoration, complete.
1980 Vermilion TR7 Sprint replica, in progress.

POW Peter Wirth
HEBRON, NH - New Hampshire, USA   USA
In reply to # 1591203 by TR8todd Apply some CRC disc brake quiet or similar. Sand down rotors and pads to remove any pad glazing. Bevel leading edge of pad where it first contacts rotor. Clean up slots in pads where they slide in caliper. If they bind because of too much paint and crap, they vibrate and squeel like a string on a guitar. If all of this doesn't do it, buy a Wilwood kit from Glen.

Todd's Ideas are the way to go. And as a last, last resort, I guess Wilwood brakes would stop the squeal but $,$,$. I'm sure Triumph did not say "well the brakes aren't the best but at least they screech, perfect." If The attention to details Todd suggested don't help, I'd consider getting an inexpensive set of generic pads, about $20.00, just to see. - Pete

Darth V8R Avatar
Darth V8R Vance Navarrette
Beaverton, OR, USA   USA
1980 Triumph TR7 Drophead "The Great Pumpkin"
1980 Triumph TR8 "Wedgie"
Lads:

Quick update.

Got the brakes done, need to take it for a test drive.

The PO included new brake rotors and new pads with the car. I had originally thought perhaps he had done a brake upgrade, but alas he had not. So I believe he intended to replace the rotors in an attempt to fix the brake squeal. As I mentioned he had installed new hoses, and what appeared to be new pads. When I removed the pads, there was masking tape on the back of them, so a poor man's anti-squeal fix it seems.

OK, so I removed the original shims, since they clearly were not getting the job done. Used CRC brake goo on the back of the pads. I used new cotter pins, and rust stripped the original retaining clips. One clip, after the rust was gone, was basically transparent, because the metal was so thin - you could literally see light through the clip over about 80% of its surface. It flopped around in my hand like it was made of cellophane tape. I had some spare clips, so the clips got replaced too. I don't know if clips that are not doing their jobs could cause squealing.

I also adjusted the bypass valves on the carbs in an attempt to address the popping every time I shifted. One carb was properly adjusted, the other had the bypass valve fully closed, so it was not working. They now both work. Making the adjustment on the rear carb was all but impossible because the FASD and throttle linkage are in the way. I used a 12" x 1/8" screw driver and muttered many anatomically unlikely combinations of Zenith and Triumph engineers before I was done.

Test drive will be tomorrow, weather permitting. I am too lazy to put the top up when the weather is inclement.

Vance



1980 Platinum Metallic TR8, frame off restoration, complete.
1980 Vermilion TR7 Sprint replica, in progress.

Darth V8R Avatar
Darth V8R Vance Navarrette
Beaverton, OR, USA   USA
1980 Triumph TR7 Drophead "The Great Pumpkin"
1980 Triumph TR8 "Wedgie"
Lads:

Just a follow on to this thread.

I took the Great Pumpkin out for a spin as we had a break in the weather. The brakes are still howling despite the anti-squeal compound on the back of the pads and removal of the backing shims. I have decided to try a different compound for the pads - a set of ceramic pads as recommended by British Parts Northwest. A spare set of rotors came with the car, which I am guessing were intended to be a last gasp fix for the brakes.

The popping/backfiring is greatly reduced with the bypass valve adjustment, but the idle sometimes refuses to settle down, indicating the valves are not closing the way they should. I have decided to rebuild the valves - the diaphragms get stiff with age and impossible to keep adjusted properly.

I also took the car to an exhaust shop in the hope that the exhaust leak I can hear but can't find would be located and welded. They located it all right. The down pipes to the CAT are cracked in several places. He said they are not weldable, and in any event since they are part of the CAT they are prohibited from repairing them, they must replace the entire CAT assembly. The state is pretty strict in this area, apparently. I have decided to live with it until I pull the motor at which point I will be replacing the entire exhaust system. The sprint motor requires a different exhaust manifold and the only thing available is the Rimmer Header, which will require a different CAT assembly.

That's it for now.

Cheers,

Vance



1980 Platinum Metallic TR8, frame off restoration, complete.
1980 Vermilion TR7 Sprint replica, in progress.

Darth V8R Avatar
Darth V8R Vance Navarrette
Beaverton, OR, USA   USA
1980 Triumph TR7 Drophead "The Great Pumpkin"
1980 Triumph TR8 "Wedgie"
Some news on this thread. The pads recommended by BPNW seem to be working, no more brake howl.

The pads are not yet fully bedded in, of course. The car only has a handful of miles on it since the new pads were put in (weather has been awful) but no more squealing/howling at stops. Yippee!

Time will tell if the results last, but so far I am very happy. Money well spent, it seems.

Vance



1980 Platinum Metallic TR8, frame off restoration, complete.
1980 Vermilion TR7 Sprint replica, in progress.

darrellwalker Darrell Walker
Vancouver, WA, USA   USA
1966 Triumph TR4A "Christy"
1981 Triumph TR8 "Kate"
When does the engine work start? That's what we are waiting for! smiling smiley



Darrell Walker
66 TR4A IRS-SC CTC67956L
81 TR8 SATPZ458XBA406206
Vancouver, WA, USA

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