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Seized head stud

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twomanytriumphs Avatar
twomanytriumphs Gold Member Kyle Darby
Kelso, WA, USA   USA
1965 Triumph TR4 "My Baby"
1966 Triumph 2000 MkI "Bessie"
1970 Triumph GT6+ (MkII) "The Princess"
1977 MG MGB
Hi all,

Pulling apart a spare motor today and can’t seem to get the right rear head stud to break loose from the cylinder head? This is the stud back by the heater control valve. 6 studs have come out of the block, but the other 4 seem stuck right now. More wondering why THAT stud seems to seize? In 07 when I pulled my Tr4 apart it was seized as well. Thanks Kyle.

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Sarastro Avatar
Sarastro Steve Maas
Long Beach, CA, USA   USA
There are lots of ways to remove seized fasteners, and I'm not an expert at it, so I'll let others suggest options. However, I do recommend one thing: start with the easiest, least aggressive methods, then progress to more violent ones.

You asked about one specific stud, but then said that four rear ones are seized. If so, that includes two of the recessed ones. You need to be very careful with those, as you can't risk breaking one inside the block.

Here is what I did recently, for what it's worth: http://www.nonlintec.com/tr4a/engine/#preparations

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Geko Avatar
Geko Stef SG
Kuala Lumpur, WP, Malaysia   MYS
The engine is slightly tilted backward. Rust and crud accumulating towards the rear of the engine is a known issue. Suffice that your head gasket was leaking from the waterways for a prolonged period of time for water to stagnate round the studs. The rest is chemistry I suppose.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-25 03:10 PM by Geko.

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alex3rail Avatar
alex3rail Sean Alexander
Waterloo, IA, USA   USA
Be patient.

I agree with Sarastro "start with the easiest, least aggressive methods, then progress to more violent ones".

Keep hitting the stud with a heat source and soaking with a good penetrating oil. I have cycled studs like this for weeks before they broke loose with less aggressive methods

For the really stuck ones after applying heating/penetrating oil cycles for extended period of time I will cut the stud off about 2" above block deck and mig weld on a grade 8 nut and hit it with impact.

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twomanytriumphs Avatar
twomanytriumphs Gold Member Kyle Darby
Kelso, WA, USA   USA
1965 Triumph TR4 "My Baby"
1966 Triumph 2000 MkI "Bessie"
1970 Triumph GT6+ (MkII) "The Princess"
1977 MG MGB
A lot of rust and crud in this engine. It’s been apart before, at least but cylinder head was off. It’s got a tattler behind the water pump on the head. As for the remainder of the studs, I’ll either use heat or let a machinist have a go at them. Next few weeks I’ll look at the bottom end.

As to how I got it apart. BFH and a couple hardwood wedges.... and then an even bigger hammer and a large dead blow hammer. It walked right up but hung onto that stud the whole way.

Kyle.


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DerbyRam54 Neville Wardle
Branford, CT, USA   USA
A tool that worked very well for me is a set of stud removers/installers made by Matco. It was quite expensive but saved the day with a particularly stubborn stud on the Spitfire.

It's a variation on the old double-nut dodge, the difference being that the bottom nut is bigger than the top nut. This allows you to get a socket into play and an impact wrench. The extra torque and the vibration did the job for me.

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twomanytriumphs Avatar
twomanytriumphs Gold Member Kyle Darby
Kelso, WA, USA   USA
1965 Triumph TR4 "My Baby"
1966 Triumph 2000 MkI "Bessie"
1970 Triumph GT6+ (MkII) "The Princess"
1977 MG MGB
In reply to # 1598825 by DerbyRam54 A tool that worked very well for me is a set of stud removers/installers made by Matco. It was quite expensive but saved the day with a particularly stubborn stud on the Spitfire.

It's a variation on the old double-nut dodge, the difference being that the bottom nut is bigger than the top nut. This allows you to get a socket into play and an impact wrench. The extra torque and the vibration did the job for me.

Can you post a picture of what it looks like? I’ve got a couple stud pullers, one is an old craftsman used with a breaker bar. The other is a snap on or matco, but currently MIA in the shop. Thanks Kyle.

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tapkaJohnD Avatar
tapkaJohnD John Davies
Lancaster, Lancashire, UK   GBR
Double-nutting should condemn that stud as the threads will have been excessively stressed.
If you have the kit, welding a nut to the stud is the next step, as it provides extreme, localised heat.

Also try your favourite releasing agent, from wd-40 (Ha!) to home brew acetone/ATF. Then try a candle stub. Heat the stud and quench it with the stub, so the melted wax runs down onto the threads. let it cool, and try again, repeat.
AND, tighten the stud first, and turn it out with a to-and-fro motion, like using a tap. LISTEN, and if it starts to squeal, STOP! It's about to break. Add more oil, turn it back, to and fro, ease it out!

John

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oregon250 Avatar
oregon250 Chris P
Salem, OR, USA   USA
1968 Triumph TR250 "Stella Blue"
drilling it out is what i did once with a 250 and had complete success., but keep a steady hand and a keen eye with plenty of cutting oil.

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Anchor2 John Glynn
La Quinta, CA, USA   USA
I really had no faith with this method but it worked like a charm.

Heat the stud with a torch and use a candle around the stud once it heats up. The wax will penetrate the stud. Good luck,.

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TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
After some poking around, I think Neville was talking about this kit
https://www.matcotools.com/catalog/product/SR202/SAE-STUD-REMOVER-INSTALLATION-KIT/

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to cover the 1/2-20 size used for TR2-4 head studs.

However, I think you could accomplish the same thing for removal using a heavy nut
https://www.mcmaster.com/96460a380
paired with a "header nut"
https://www.mcmaster.com/90759a550

The installation tool is just a coupling nut
https://www.mcmaster.com/90983a218
combined with a matching set screw
https://www.mcmaster.com/92765a647


In reply to # 1599050 by twomanytriumphs
In reply to # 1598825 by DerbyRam54 A tool that worked very well for me is a set of stud removers/installers made by Matco. It was quite expensive but saved the day with a particularly stubborn stud on the Spitfire.

It's a variation on the old double-nut dodge, the difference being that the bottom nut is bigger than the top nut. This allows you to get a socket into play and an impact wrench. The extra torque and the vibration did the job for me.

Can you post a picture of what it looks like? I’ve got a couple stud pullers, one is an old craftsman used with a breaker bar. The other is a snap on or matco, but currently MIA in the shop. Thanks Kyle.



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L Once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

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DerbyRam54 Neville Wardle
Branford, CT, USA   USA
That is the tool set. They are held together by some sort of o-ring, I am not sure how critical that is. It seemed to me that the key was being able to use the impact gun. I'd tried for a couple of weeks with two ordinary nuts and was no further forward despite a lot of penetrating oil. All I had for heat was a propane torch (condo association would not view oxy-acetylene tanks very favourably) which was a bit pathetic really.

And to John D's point, quite correct, the stud was scrapped as it had been overstressed. I was just glad to get the damned thing out. As far as the cost of the tools, I am a bit of a tool nut and like collecting that stuff, it's my version of bling. eye rolling smiley

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TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
I could easily be wrong, but I think the O-ring is just for convenience, so you can handle the two nuts as a unit. I found a video on YouTube (of what appears to be a functionally equivalent tool not sold by MATCO) that showed putting them on the stud one at a time.


And again, I could be wrong, but I think the "magic" is that the stepped nut sizes let you get your impact socket onto the bottom nut, so the impact tightens it onto the stud rather than knocking it loose. That's why I linked to a pair of nuts, with the flats on the big nut wider than the widest point of the small nut.

As a side comment, if you lack a welder and want to attach a nut so it absolutely will not come off; thread a regular nut on so that it is flush with the end of the stud, then drill a 1/16" or 3/32" hole into the joint between the nut & stud, in-line with the direction of the stud. Drive in a pin of the same size as your drill. The result is amazingly strong, the stud will twist before the nut comes off.



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L Once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

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twomanytriumphs Avatar
twomanytriumphs Gold Member Kyle Darby
Kelso, WA, USA   USA
1965 Triumph TR4 "My Baby"
1966 Triumph 2000 MkI "Bessie"
1970 Triumph GT6+ (MkII) "The Princess"
1977 MG MGB
I’ll have to look into these. Once I got the head off the parts engine and to another enthusiast I stopped working on the engine for now. I’ll try map gas then oxy on the head studs and see what happens. For now I need to concentrate my energy back to finishing the GT6 and getting the new motor and windshield in the 2000. Thanks for all the pointers! Keep them coming. Kyle.

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