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Tr3 Rear suspension

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TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
The "bands" are riveted to the main leaf, not easy to replace. So far anyway, I've been able to bend them open and back closed without cracking them.

If they did have to be replaced, I would just pick up some mild steel bar and bend it to shape. Last time I went to a spring shop (long time ago), they used something that looked completely different. Basically a long bolt and spacer to close the bottom, rather than just bending the ends over. So it was more of a U shape, with the bolt and spacer across the open end of the "U".



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L Once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

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ShortBulge Avatar
ShortBulge Silver Member Brian LeBlanc
Falls Church, VA, USA   USA
I didnt have enuff Gym time to lift Diff up

...so put a angled wood frame on floor jack and strapped Diff to it

templebuchanan Silver Member Temple Buchanan
Crescent City, CA, USA   USA
1961 Triumph TR3A "Buck"
Success, at least on drivers side. Made puller per Randall, used 15/16" socket, 1" pipe is right OD/ID also but did not have right length. Once started was actually able to pry out quicker, hope the other side goes as well. Sure pb blaster soaking had a lot to do with it. Thinking on going back with new pin, would it be appropriate to coat new pin with never-seize? Would keep it from rusting together. Thanks again Randall

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TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
I coated mine with copper-based anti-seize (which seems to work much better for me than the more common aluminum based stuff). Seemed to help a lot, they slid out some 10 years later before I could even get the "puller" attached.



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L Once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

templebuchanan Silver Member Temple Buchanan
Crescent City, CA, USA   USA
1961 Triumph TR3A "Buck"
My father's business started using never seize back in the late 70s, amazing stuff. Old fasteners on industrial pumps could just about be rusted through on outside and still come right apart.

templebuchanan Silver Member Temple Buchanan
Crescent City, CA, USA   USA
1961 Triumph TR3A "Buck"
Rain coming back, hope to get rest of rear suspension teardown done soon, all the parts for that on the way. Except for leaf springs. Assuming ones on there are not broken, is it really better to dismantle, sandblast, graphite paint, and reuse vs buying new? From what I know of metallurgy and time and money spent in general I'm thinking new. Which brings up the question of which spring manufacturer and what rate? Not against not spending money, but don't like to throw good money after bad. Most importantly, don't want to do this again anytime soon. Pretty sure rust between leaves, be surprised if there's not damage on passenger side.

templebuchanan Silver Member Temple Buchanan
Crescent City, CA, USA   USA
1961 Triumph TR3A "Buck"
Gentlemen

Back working on this, pulled drivers side axle nut, brake drum. Brake shoes .180" thickness, drums .425 ". Everything on brakes appears good, suspect Father replaced 11 years ago, approximately 3 k miles .

Bit of grease inside spline collar, no play in bearings. Lot of brake dust but no grease in brakes. Should I go further? Most likely been a long time since broken down past this. If so, advice on next step, techniques, and tools appreciated.

Working on finishing up spring removal. Hoping for at least no further damage to either of us coming apart.

Temple


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TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
After an 11 year snooze, and you've already got it that far apart; I would (did) remove the shoes, disassemble, clean and lube the adjuster; and rebuild the slave cylinder. New seals are cheap, and old glycol fluid becomes very corrosive over time.

I once ruined a brand new pair of slave cylinders, by filling them with DOT 4 and putting them back on the shelf. They corroded to uselessness without ever being installed on a car!



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L Once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

templebuchanan Silver Member Temple Buchanan
Crescent City, CA, USA   USA
1961 Triumph TR3A "Buck"
Randall

Probably good advice whenever the brake drum is pulled. Back to the hub. From everything I've read, could be a bear pulling it. One conflict in my literature is whether the splined collar needs to be removed first and how the heck do you do that? Then there is the underlying question of whether I should pull the hub at all right now. I'm all about maintenance, but I also believe in if it ain't broke....

Drivers side suspension teardown complete. Spring sound but appears heavily oxidized under all the oil and grime. Wil see what the passenger side looks like, expect damage there from the loose shock bolt.

Temple

TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
I would definitely recommend leaving the hub on the shaft unless you have an essential reason for removing it (eg a bad wheel bearing). Just put the nut & washer back on, tighten to spec, then back away smiling smiley

The "splined collar" is only found on the early "Mayflower" axle, which is only original to cars with Lockheed (front drum) brakes (sometimes also known as the "Lockheed" axle for that reason, though the axle was not made by Lockheed).

With the later Vanguard axle (aka "Girling" axle), the hub pulls straight off the shaft. However, it takes a special tool to avoid ruining the hub, and even then it may not come off. If you do decide you have to remove the hubs, I recommend either buying the tool (there's a fellow reproducing them now), or removing the hub and shaft as an assembly and sending it off to someone who has the tool.

Here is, as far as I know, the only current source for the tool https://windyridgefarm.us/Triumph-Churchill.php

Of course, there are other methods. Here's a good article on one way to roll your own puller (although I was never able to find the materials referenced at a reasonable price) https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2H2NJt34OffOTIyYmQ4MzgtNDM0Yy00OTY1LTljNzEtZDMyNjM5OWFkZTQ4

Although written some time ago, it's my understanding that the contact info and offer at the end are still good.

But none of that is necessary to service the brakes. Just leave the backing plate on the car and remove the other components. It's not exactly easy working under there, but IMO still easier than removing the backing plates.

Not a huge difference, though, so you can go the other way if you choose. Again, just leave the hub on the shaft; and remove the hub and shaft as a unit. There are locktabs around on the back, and 6 bolts that hold the bearing housing to the end of the axle housing. Undo the brake lines and emergency brake cable, then the hub and shaft assembly just slides out.

If you do go that far, I would suggest double-checking the shaft end float when re-assembling (may need to adjust the shim packs), and replacing the oil seals inside the axle housing. End float spec is .004" to .006" (measured with both sides assembled), you'll need a dial indicator to check it. The process is covered in the appendix in the back of the workshop manual.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2H2NJt34OffYWZiN2VlZGMtNTkxMi00NGUzLWE4NzMtMGRkODRkYzU3MDU1

Oh yes, I should mention that many sources show the assembly of the Girling slave cylinders to the backing plate wrong; including both the TR3 and TR4 factory workshop manuals! It will go back together easier if you ignore the diagrams and follow the text instructions





Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L Once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

andy303 Avatar
andy303 Gold Member Andrew Blackley
Chardon, OH, USA   USA
Randall:

You are a veritable compendium of Triumph wisdom. I am in awe.

The M86A puller at $99 looks like real deal when one thinks of the hassle of :

a. making one yourself without access to machine tools;
b. lugging the axle assembly around to some local shop who might then screw it up anyways;
c. driving hours to a Triumph specialist who knows what they are doing.

And it comes with a fitted box.


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templebuchanan Silver Member Temple Buchanan
Crescent City, CA, USA   USA
1961 Triumph TR3A "Buck"
Thanks for the clarification on the splined collar, conflicting info and not really a clear exploded view of that on the different manuals I have. M86A puller nicest one I've seen, put it on the list. Buddy lent me a large Proto dbl puller, adjustable, looks like a good way to get killed but might work. I had previously ordered a Draper N142A hub puller that might have a shot with the right spacers and and/or stud extensions. I also have a Draper N140 ball joint separator that I highly recommend, have a couple of their other small pullers that I hope to put to work. Photos attached. The only other hub puller specific to our cars I've seen on paper is from Rimmer bros, appears to be cast iron, more expensive.

Passenger side front leaf spring pin not as easy to come out this am. Stripped one all thread setup (grade 5 all thread best I can get locally), pushed next jig near thread breaking point, backed it off, soaking in pb blaster again. Hopefully another round or two of that will turn it loose. Will see about bearings on that side. Suspect damage to everything with loose shock mounting bolt. If so, will deal with either pulling hubs or the alternate method. Grease and oil on everything from God knows where all. Maybe can tell when I finally get it all cleaned up. If I get lucky, at a min plan on pulling differential cover for inspection, new shaft input seal, go through brakes, new suspension including new springs I think. Have fun.

Temple


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TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
McMaster-Carr ships really fast, generally same day if you order before 4 PM. You could probably have the good stuff on Tuesday
https://www.mcmaster.com

Honestly, I wouldn't even try with a 2-arm puller like that. Just too much chance of permanently distorting the hub; and very little chance it will work.



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L Once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
In reply to # 1594095 by templebuchanan Thanks for the clarification on the splined collar, conflicting info and not really a clear exploded view of that on the different manuals I have.
The link I posted above is a PDF of the factory workshop manual. It's not necessarily as clear as it could be, since it was originally written before most of the changes took place. But there is an appendix in the back that covers many of the changes, including disc brakes and the later rear axle.

I've also added a few notes and things like a later wiring diagram that might be useful.



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L Once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

templebuchanan Silver Member Temple Buchanan
Crescent City, CA, USA   USA
1961 Triumph TR3A "Buck"
Randall

I have that same manual. Have girling rear axle but have had a couple of surprises with older components. If I end up needing to pull hubs, will get purpose built hub puller that sits on all 4 lug nuts. Only put enough pressure on two point puller just to hold it up. Think it would slip under heavy load, not going to use it. Will order grade 8 all thread if the leaf spring bolt doesn't turn loose - next pull.

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