Visit our Twitter feed for more great content
TRExp

TR2 & TR3 Forum

TR3 leaf springs - feedback \ advice

Moss Motors
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor

JoeOtero Avatar
JoeOtero Joe Otero
Lexington, KY, USA   USA
1963 Triumph TR3B "Beatrice"
1971 TVR Vixen
1972 TVR Vixen
2011 BMW Z4 3.0si
Greetings fellow forum members.... One of the leaf springs for the TR3 is broken... I'm looking for someone advice on replacement...

The springs pictured from Moss (online catalog) don't look correct... TRF is not listing them as available... I did find two sources...Empire British Car Parts and British Parts Northwest.. Anyone have any experience with these?

http://empirebritishcarparts.com/TRIUMPH-TR2-TR3-TR4-LEAF-SPRINGS-208636-p2507.html

https://www.bpnorthwest.com/leaf-spring-triumph-tr2-to-tr4-to-ct23382.html?gdffi=7c26fa82af054ed48c16509776f45115&gdfms=6676B53C2AFB462AB79913326BC62313&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIo9vOm4Ot2AIVyrrACh3IogtoEAYYASABEgJVofD_BwE

The one available from BPN states they are "15% uprated for the Triumph TR2, TR3 and TR3A"... hmmm... what does that mean? Stiffer?

I'm also thinking finding a good used pair is an option... Perhaps a better route?


Thoughts?

Any help \ feedback would very much be appreciated.

Cheers
Joe Otero



Cheers
Joe Otero
1963 TR3B TCF 1227 - Beatrice

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <
Trusty Paul Monette
Bad Homburg, Hessen, Germany   DEU
Joe, The illustration for the rear springs in the Moss-Europe catalog is confusing. The Moss US is a bit better but in any case I spoke to Moss, bought them and they are correct. I tried to download a photo here...am not sure it worked. Paul


Attachments:
21313F41-8B5D-4526-ADE2-719A815B26B1.jpeg    48.1 KB
21313F41-8B5D-4526-ADE2-719A815B26B1.jpeg

Andy Saltspringer Avatar
Andy Saltspringer Andy Higgs J
Saltspring Island, BC, Canada   CAN
Hi Joe

Just to play devils advocate here. If a single leaf is broken I would open up and clean all the leaves and check for any other cracks and then ask my local 4 x 4 suspension shop if they can fabricate a replacement leaf. The local shop here in Victoria, BC seemed to think that making a single leaf spring was no big deal. It would probably be cheaper than buying a whole new set. The feedback I got about aftermarket springs was there were some questions over the spring rates, ride heights and build quality.

I am starting work on my springs in the next couple of weeks. I have separated the springs and sand blasted the corrosion off. I have asked a blacksmith buddy fabricated up a new set of shackles and will will then re-rivet them.

This week I put the engine block back together and will start fitting the ancillary parts such as fuel pump, oil pump, and distributor. I will finish painting the block today. Feels good to be putting stuff back together, rather than taking it all apart.

Cheers

Andy



Saltspring Island, BC

1961 TR3A
1946 Harley Davidson WL45
1960 BMW R60/2
1972 BMW R60/5
1973 BMW R75/5
1981 Moto Morini 500

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <
ArtL Avatar
ArtL Art Liefke
Kings Park, NY, USA   USA
In reply to # 1504884 by Andy Saltspringer The feedback I got about aftermarket springs was there were some questions over the spring rates, ride heights and build quality.

All of the springs that I have seen or heard about that have the part number (208636) stenciled in white paint on them are one the springs in question. These seem to be coming from many sources. I have a pair from Moss I was going to use on my car, but am reluctant to do so. The leaves are thicker than original for one thing, and the thickness isn't tapered towards the the ends like the originals. I believe Randall (TR3driver) has rigged up a system for checking the spring rates and these particular springs measure very high. He has put a set of these springs on one of his cars and was not too happy with them.

You can read his thoughts on the matter in this thread.

Whether or not Moss and the others have rectified the problem I don't know. But I would carefully measure the thicknesses of the leaves on any aftermarket springs purchased.



Art


Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. - Benjamin Franklin

TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
In reply to # 1504841 by Trusty Joe, The illustration for the rear springs in the Moss-Europe catalog is confusing. The Moss US is a bit better but in any case I spoke to Moss, bought them and they are correct. I tried to download a photo here...am not sure it worked. Paul
Just to be clear, Paul, have you driven the car with the new springs?



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L Once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

JoeOtero Avatar
JoeOtero Joe Otero
Lexington, KY, USA   USA
1963 Triumph TR3B "Beatrice"
1971 TVR Vixen
1972 TVR Vixen
2011 BMW Z4 3.0si
Hey there Paul, Andy, Art,

Thanks for the input.. Very much appreciated... Even though TRF does not list them as available I'm going to call them Tuesday to get their input... I'm going to also look into having mine rebuilt... I meant to call BPN to find out whats meant by uprated but got distracted with work. I may call them as well Tuesday...

After reading all the entries within the forum Art pointed to there is only one conclusion for me right now.... This is not straight forward... esp for me being this is my first Triumph and not knowing whats normal... I guess if its drastically rough riding I'll know its not right...


Thanks again guys

Cheers
Joe Otero



Cheers
Joe Otero
1963 TR3B TCF 1227 - Beatrice

JoeOtero Avatar
JoeOtero Joe Otero
Lexington, KY, USA   USA
1963 Triumph TR3B "Beatrice"
1971 TVR Vixen
1972 TVR Vixen
2011 BMW Z4 3.0si
In reply to # 1504841 by Trusty Joe, The illustration for the rear springs in the Moss-Europe catalog is confusing. The Moss US is a bit better but in any case I spoke to Moss, bought them and they are correct. I tried to download a photo here...am not sure it worked. Paul

Chassis looks awesome Paul!



Cheers
Joe Otero
1963 TR3B TCF 1227 - Beatrice

Trusty Paul Monette
Bad Homburg, Hessen, Germany   DEU
Randall, It will be a few years before I can drive the TR3 but I believe I have the same springs on my 3A which I’ve put about 11,000 miles on in the last couple years. I am not the right person to ask about handling, I drive a bit aggressively through the curves when I’m alone, nothing more. I’ve got TR 6 (?) rims and wider tires but stock shox. No sway bar. It’s gone sideways a few times but corrected without problem. I’ve got a friend with rally experience and this summer I’ll get him to drive it and see what he thinks. I’ve got a fast street cam, headers and big bore exhaust with a single muffler, that’s about all I need to be entertained.

Thanks for all the info you provide. I read it all.

All the best to you and all the readers for the new year.

JoeOtero Avatar
JoeOtero Joe Otero
Lexington, KY, USA   USA
1963 Triumph TR3B "Beatrice"
1971 TVR Vixen
1972 TVR Vixen
2011 BMW Z4 3.0si
Sounds like you making good progress Andy.... Congrats... Would be nice to see some pics... :-)

In reply to # 1504884 by Andy Saltspringer Hi Joe

Just to play devils advocate here. If a single leaf is broken I would open up and clean all the leaves and check for any other cracks and then ask my local 4 x 4 suspension shop if they can fabricate a replacement leaf. The local shop here in Victoria, BC seemed to think that making a single leaf spring was no big deal. It would probably be cheaper than buying a whole new set. The feedback I got about aftermarket springs was there were some questions over the spring rates, ride heights and build quality.

I am starting work on my springs in the next couple of weeks. I have separated the springs and sand blasted the corrosion off. I have asked a blacksmith buddy fabricated up a new set of shackles and will will then re-rivet them.

This week I put the engine block back together and will start fitting the ancillary parts such as fuel pump, oil pump, and distributor. I will finish painting the block today. Feels good to be putting stuff back together, rather than taking it all apart.

Cheers

Andy



Cheers
Joe Otero
1963 TR3B TCF 1227 - Beatrice

JoeOtero Avatar
JoeOtero Joe Otero
Lexington, KY, USA   USA
1963 Triumph TR3B "Beatrice"
1971 TVR Vixen
1972 TVR Vixen
2011 BMW Z4 3.0si
In reply to # 1505013 by ArtL
In reply to # 1504884 by Andy Saltspringer The feedback I got about aftermarket springs was there were some questions over the spring rates, ride heights and build quality.

All of the springs that I have seen or heard about that have the part number (208636) stenciled in white paint on them are one the springs in question. These seem to be coming from many sources. I have a pair from Moss I was going to use on my car, but am reluctant to do so. The leaves are thicker than original for one thing, and the thickness isn't tapered towards the the ends like the originals. I believe Randall (TR3driver) has rigged up a system for checking the spring rates and these particular springs measure very high. He has put a set of these springs on one of his cars and was not too happy with them.

You can read his thoughts on the matter in this thread.

Whether or not Moss and the others have rectified the problem I don't know. But I would carefully measure the thicknesses of the leaves on any aftermarket springs purchased.

Hey Art,

Thanks for posting the link to the other forum on this topic.. Much appreciated... Think I'll get a beer and read all the entries again... :-)



Cheers
Joe Otero
1963 TR3B TCF 1227 - Beatrice

TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
In reply to # 1505134 by Trusty Randall, It will be a few years before I can drive the TR3 but I believe I have the same springs on my 3A

Perhaps I'm belaboring the point here; but it's entirely possible that the springs Moss sold a few years back didn't come from the same place as ones bought more recently. All the major vendors used to carry good springs once upon a time; I rather suspect they all came (perhaps indirectly) from the same supplier. I know Albert told me a few years back that their supplier (in the UK) had become sick and was no longer able to supply the good springs; and that they were looking around at other sources. The ones I got were (I believe) from the first source they tried after that. I'm guessing they tried another source after that, who also got it wrong; and now have them listed NLA until they can find someone who can get it right at a reasonable price.

FWIW, I found a website with a leaf spring calculator (sorry, I've lost the link) and entered all the TR3 spring data into it. The results agreed quite well, both with the factory specs (using factory dimensions), and with the observed rate of the slightly thicker springs I got. My conclusion is that it's the extra thickness that makes the difference, even though the thickness difference seems small. This is somewhat borne out by the specs in the TR4 workshop manual, where it only takes .015" difference in the smaller leaves to go from 128 lb/in to 155 lb/in. That's a 20% increase in rate, for only 8% thickness (and only in the smaller leaves).

Strictly a WAG, but my guess is that spring steel comes in a certain list of thicknesses; and the original TR3 thickness is not on the list. To work spring steel, you have to first anneal it, make any changes, then harden and temper it. Takes a lot of special equipment (mostly a BIG oven for hardening and tempering) and a lot of time. Probably anyone who actually puts that much time into them, would not be willing to sell for a price we want to pay.

There is a company on the net (again I don't have the link handy) that will make custom leaf springs to your drawing, and guarantee the results. Their price for a TR3 spring was about (IIRC) about three times what TRF (used to) charge!



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L Once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

Trusty Paul Monette
Bad Homburg, Hessen, Germany   DEU
Joe,

Thanks for compliment on the chassis. I can’t find a picture of the car when it arrived here but it was a rusty pile of metal held together by a bolt or two and a lot of duct tape. I wasn’t a bit disappointed, it was exactly as the PO described. I got an extra trans with “A” overdrive and I think four extra SU carbs plus extra wheels and other stuff I’m still trying to figure out and organize. That chassis and everything underneath was covered with layers of mud, undercoating, more mud and more undercoating and every available hole had been used by squirrels to nest in. The motor ran for about a minute after I arranged gas line, etc. but then never would start again. Exhaust pipe was completely stuffed with squirrel nesting material.

Anyway, after a lot of scraping and cleaning and measuring I had chassis sand blasted and powder coated. Most other parts I’ve cleaned, primed and can-sprayed.

My 3A is in winter storage so I can’t look at the rear springs now but what Randall mentioned about quality changes over the years might apply to my car. I would have bought the springs about seven years ago.

Here is a pic of the carbs I’ll be using. Another example of getting the cart before the horse. There are cardboard piece between the carbs and tubes so no dirt can get in for next few years. By then I’ll have to re-do some of the cork washers, etc. but having those shiny carbs hanging on the wall keeps me motivated.

Happy New Year.

Paul


Attachments:
IMG_0076.JPG    45.2 KB
IMG_0076.JPG

johnstydo Avatar
johnstydo John Styduhar
Hermitage, PA, USA   USA
Scott Harper, owner of Team Triumph in Warren, OH would likely have sets of factory TR3 leaf springs from take-offs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-01-05 06:22 PM by johnstydo.

tonytr3 Avatar
tonytr3 Gold Member Tony M
Grosse Ile, MI, USA   USA
1959 Triumph TR3 "TR"
You might talk to Eaton Springs in Detroit, https://www.eatondetroitspring.com/. They made me a set for a '60 TR3 many years ago. I gave them one old spring and they reproduced a set. They are located right in Detroit, across the street from where the old Tiger Stadium stood.

tony

Geo Hahn Avatar
Mt Lemmon, AZ, USA   USA
Maybe I just got lucky but when the passenger side spring broke on mine I replaced it with a used spring. The result was excellent with a level & correct looking ride height both then and years later.

I was lucky to the extent I found someone local who was selling their old springs to use new (moss) on their restoration. That's a 19 year (& counting) resto so he doesn't yet know if he made the right choice.

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <

To add your reply, or post your own questions




Registration is FREE and takes less than a minute!


Having trouble posting or changing forum settings?
Read the Forum Help (FAQ) or contact the webmaster





Join The Club

Sign in to ask questions, share photos, and access all website features

Your Cars

1973 Triumph Spitfire 1500

Text Size

Larger Smaller
Reset Save

Sponsor Links