Spitfire & GT6 Forum

Got car on stands, wheels under the sides so far have 10 bolts out of pan

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Andy&Sherry
1974 Spit 1500 Carmine Red
1977 Spit 1500 Pink Panther Pink

Always learning something

Hey Andy,you know me. I just had to ask do you mean the Midget?

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Sometimes you succeed,other times you learn.

Hey Patrick how you doing,well we have had the Midget running rear brakes are done,oh blower motor works, lights work
The project is my spit

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Andy&Sherry
1974 Spit 1500 Carmine Red
1977 Spit 1500 Pink Panther Pink

Always learning something

Andy,been doing well thank you. Still buying TR4's,let me know when you want to trade up. Can't spend all your time looking up,more fun to look out. What happened now,what did I miss?? Can't rib you about the Midge anymore,huh? Glad things are working out with that! Let me know if you need help or parts.

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Sometimes you succeed,other times you learn.

Trying to get to the bottom of my oil consumption so I'm attempting to check bearings and if I get brave enough piston rings
It's a shame cos it's running fantastic

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Andy&Sherry
1974 Spit 1500 Carmine Red
1977 Spit 1500 Pink Panther Pink

Always learning something

Oil is cheap - skinned knuckles are painful. Seriously I don't think you will find your oil consumption at the bottom.You will have to work your way upwards. Maybe a bad oil control ring,or the rings are all lined up and not staggered as should be. Question: did you use the optional valve stem seals when you did your head? Negate that thought if you had new guides installed. Sometimes something as simple as a change in oil brands or weights can change your fortunes. That's why some people are so loyal to specific brands!

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Sometimes you succeed,other times you learn.

P.S. give the oil a day or so drain away once you get the pan off. If you have not already done so from it sitting? Otherwise when you come out from under the car Sherry will have a new pet name for you. SPOT...

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Sometimes you succeed,other times you learn.

Patrick - The oil stem seals were never optional, they are just an aftermarket addition. Using them where the valve to guide clearances are correct may well lead to insufficient lubrication, unless bronze guides have been fitted. Even without the stem seals, unless the valve stems are extremely loose in the guides, the amount of oil which will get into the combustion chamber is minimal and unlikely to lead to excessive oil consumption.
My money's on the oil control rings - if it's a 3 part oil ring, and the ring gaps in the upper and lower sections line up, that can be a real problem. BTDT.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-11-09 04:22 AM by grumpicus.

I dunno Andy. Sounds to me like you should leave well enough alone . . .
Is the car smoking at start up or while running?
Has it had this "appetite" the whole time or just recently?

By the way, when you say a project is underway, it would be good for some of us if you describe your project.
I suppose that there are other threads that elude to this, but not being in touch for a few weeks leaves me in the dark.
Just saying.
Regardless, I hope you get it worked out!

uh oh.......don't kill a dead horse ! ha ha

good luck...i'll be following your progress, as i maybe doing something very similar over winter.

Hi Dickie oil consumption as only become an issue over the last driving year it always used a bit but the amount has gone way up
My other option is to just keep it topped up as I dot do a lot of long trips

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Andy&Sherry
1974 Spit 1500 Carmine Red
1977 Spit 1500 Pink Panther Pink

Always learning something

Steve,sorry if you misunderstood my use of the word,"optional". They are made as a stop gap measure to help oil being sucked into the engine. Optional in my sense of the word meant,they are an option if you feel the need or choose to use them.

On a side note many MG engine gasket kits used to carry these seals. Actually the O-ring style version of them. Of all the people I have seen rebuild those engines,I would say only about 50% choose the "option" to use them. Maybe it was my use of American English? Don't take that literally.

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Sometimes you succeed,other times you learn.

Patrick - no problem, I guess I was just implying that the factory never used, recommended or even mentioned them! The first ones I saw were sold by Canleys about 10 or 15 years ago, and were basically the same stem seals as fitted to some Ford engines, maybe even the OHC Pinto engine? Since then, I've read of people using stem seals with bronze valve guides, which are probably less likely to seize or 'pick up' on the valve stems, even with less lubrication than standard. Originally, Triumph kept the oil consumption to an acceptable level by running with a very small amount of clearance between the iron valve guide and stem. Reduce the lubrication to the valve stem, and the chance of it seizing in the guide increases.

From what I remember, my Spit used a pint or two of oil between oil changes, but the oil consumption due to lack of stem seals was not excessive. When the engine did start to burn oil (like a pint every 100 miles or so), the first thing I did was to fit new valves and guides, only to find it made absolutely no difference. The cause was the oil control rings, but as the engine had done around 60,000 miles since its last rebuild and I had picked up a set of oversize pistons at a good price, I had it rebored rather than just changing the rings. Problem solved, regardless.

The 'O' ring seals fitted to the valves in some MG engines were quite common, and were used on a lot of the BL 'A' series engines. They fit on the valve stem above the guide, and maybe are intended to prevent oil running down the stem and into the guide by shaking off any oil which gets onto the 'O' ring, simply due to the rapid up and down movement of the valve. I doubt they would act as effectively as a 'proper' valve stem seal, but they may reduce the amount of oil entering the valve guides.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-11-10 05:40 AM by grumpicus.

Steve,I completely understand your message and aim.I also agree with your thoughts however strangely things are different this side of the pond between similar cars. In the old days almost all of our American iron ohv engines used these seals. It was rare not to see a gasket kit with the cup style seals. Actually it is a well known common triat that if you start up a chevy,then you see a trail of blue smoke. Guys look at each other and say,valve guides/seals! With those engines it's leak down of oil running down the guide when the car sits. I was a bit surprised when I first saw the seals offered for say,1500's. They were the cup type like American cars not O-ring per the MG's I was used to. Actually if I remember right Italian cars like Fiat,Alfa,used them too. Of course many of us know the woes of Italian cars using oil.

I can see why they use them on MG engines though.They sling lots of oil to the top end,never heard of one of them having the issues of oil feed like the Triumph story. I guess Triumph knew their engines were only feeding minimal amounts of oil to the top end? My thoughts on the American side of these cars is this. We used to put lots more miles on our cars and I don't think our switch to unleaded gas helped the wear and tear on the engines.
Back in the day most of these cars were poorly maintained. Most owners were used to the American iron that would run on nothing forever. They could not grasp the fact why an engine is not the same as another engine! 5-6 qts.of oil vs 4 qts. An engine that ran almost the whole rpm range vs one that would lumber along never needing more than 2500-3000 rpm. When new here,the BL cars were just niche transportation.Not the Classics or beloved toys they are today. People did not fret over them like they take care of them now. Are you listening,Andy? (lol)

Back to the valve guide subject. I am sure our valve guides look way worse than what your used to seeing Steve? It does not matter how much oil feed you have to the top end if you have nothing in the pan. Or if you don't maintain with constant oil changes yearly or at 3000 mi. or less intervals. Sludged up engines are the killer no matter what you drive.This talk reminds me of how surprised I was when I made my first few trips to England. If I went outside on a Sat.- Sun.there were many people up and down the lanes at the curbside working on their cars. If I was back home on a weekend I would awake to the sound of lawnmowers.

P.S. hate to say it but I do think Andy's problem is the rings.Or the fact he may have excessive bore wear.Measure twice,cut once,Andy.

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Sometimes you succeed,other times you learn.

Thanks guys I should add at the oil is completely black since I changed it around 400 miles ago

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Andy&Sherry
1974 Spit 1500 Carmine Red
1977 Spit 1500 Pink Panther Pink

Always learning something