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Bonnet Wheel Arch Shape

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Efp Avatar
Efp John Walsh
London, UK   GBR
Paul raises a good point regarding the rubber flaps on the rear of the arches, which I’d forgotten as my car has never had them during my 36 years of ownership...
The arches really don’t need to be a close fit to the tub bulkhead as those rubbers are will seal quite a wide gap, and besides no one but you will see it.
So, if the external panel gaps as discussed above are correct but the arches still foul, you can trim away the ends of them quite brutally if necessary. There’s no great harm in having a gap here anyway other than a tiny amount of road spray percolating up.
The important thing is that the bonnet top edge to scuttle gap is correct and even, and that the door/sill/bonnet side conjunction lines up nice. You have to work from those datum points and if arch surgery is then necessary, so be it, an easy fix.
I can see your concern that something else is out of whack to cause the rubbing, and maybe there’s some other issue we have all overlooked, or maybe your car has always been that way from new. In any case, the gap there is unimportant compared to the external ones that are visible.

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cmfisher4 Avatar
cmfisher4 Gold Member Chris Fisher
Mystic, CT, USA   USA
I ended up cutting down the driver's side wheel arch to match the passengers. However, I'm sorta embarrassed to say that most of my problem was in the bonnet lift kit. I bought on of those kits a while ago and was using only one strut. Well, this ended up stressing the side it was on and, since it's bolted to the wheel arch, was pushing it back. I figured out because I was able to set the gaps pretty well by just setting the bonnet in place (unbolted) and then it would go off when the strut was attached.

So, while I do think I would still have rubbing if I did not trim down the wheel arch (especially based on history), it mainly looks like a problem I created for myself. Thanks everyone for your help!

Unfortunately, it also appears as if I've made two more problems for myself, one worse than the other. After my repair to the bonnet reinforcing plate on the passenger's side, I tweaked the curvature of the bottom of the bonnet near the latch so now it does not match the door. I tried to man-handle it a bit and did a bit more damage (second pic). Maintaining the curve didn't occur to me when I welded the thing back in after repairing it so I'm sure I cause the problem. That, combined with replacing the rear wing corners has left some interesting problems. Not sure what I'm going to do with these...

Thanks again for everyone's help,
Chris



I learn something new every day...especially if I am working on my LBC!
Please visit my blog and website at http://www.roundtailrestoration.com
and my YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8LASST0WuNG0-po4hK0Maw


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Efp Avatar
Efp John Walsh
London, UK   GBR
Not sure I’m with you on your strut theory Chis, the cars came with but one prop , though admittedly the design puts no pressure on the wheel well when the bonnet was closed. Are you sure you have the prop bolted to the correct hole in the arch? That might be a factor.
As for the wing curve, yet again(!) I met the same problem on my build. You might try loosening off the clamps on the transverse support tube which may be pulling the wheel wells, and thus the wings, inwards. Adjusting the cone socket plates outwards and a thicker card gasket behind the latch hooks on the tub in addition were enough to get my bonnet in line eventually.
Just about to watch your new video, maybe you are thinking along the same lines.
Best of luck

J

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trrdster Avatar
trrdster Wayne Tate
Spencer, NC, USA   USA
1949 Triumph 2000 Roadster
1970 Triumph TR6
1978 Triumph GT6 "Scooter"
1978 Triumph Spitfire "Scooter"    & more
Chris, on the bottom of the hood, where the split is, that is a stress area for sure on these cars.
What I did was drill holes along that edge and put a strong piece of metal across the edge and weld in the holes starting from the center. If you have to cut a coule of slits in the edge to get that edge straight, so be it. Just check after each weld and keep pulling the fender area out to match your straight piece of metal.
I used a old metal ruler, it was pretty stiff, just cut the to the right width.
Might work for you.. I sometimes get things right the first time, but not often. LOL



Wayne
1970 TR6
2000 Jaguar XK8
1949 Triumph Roadster 2000
1978 Spitfire (rust victim)
1971 GT6 (tarp covered for 12 years, rusted inside out)
1980 Spitfire (getting all the good GT6 parts, all poly suspension and Spax shocks)

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Notti Avatar
Notti Eric N
San Dimas, CA, USA   USA
In reply to # 1601257 by Efp Not sure I’m with you on your strut theory Chis, the cars came with but one prop , though admittedly the design puts no pressure on the wheel well when the bonnet was closed. Are you sure you have the prop bolted to the correct hole in the arch? That might be a factor.
As for the wing curve, yet again(!) I met the same problem on my build. You might try loosening off the clamps on the transverse support tube which may be pulling the wheel wells, and thus the wings, inwards. Adjusting the cone socket plates outwards and a thicker card gasket behind the latch hooks on the tub in addition were enough to get my bonnet in line eventually.
Just about to watch your new video, maybe you are thinking along the same lines.
Best of luck

J
From what I gathered he bought a gas strut kit but only installed the one side so the pressure from the strut is causing the shift.

I bought the kit and stalled both and later found the front hinge wasn't washered properly and it allowed a sideways tilt that threw the hood alignment off so much I could barely close the passenger (right) side, and it added too much pressure on the clasp causing a stress fracture in the paint. It took me a while to get it close to right with the gas lifters in place.

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cmfisher4 Avatar
cmfisher4 Gold Member Chris Fisher
Mystic, CT, USA   USA
Hi, guys. Yes, the gas strut kit. Eric, I've noticed some movement of the brackets that bolt into the radiator housing, but they seem to be complimentary (now that I have them both on there) and cancel each other out, if that makes sense. However, I'm interested in what you mean about it being washered improperly, which would support the bracket movement. How did you stack them up to fix that?

John, I never considered that transverse bracket. I figured it was just there to support the center of the bonnet, but now that you mention it, I do remember having to move the arches a bit to get it in there, but I didn't think to align them with it. I did take a contour gauge to the door and then matched it to the bonnet (they should be the same) and they were very, very close...closer than it being that far out of whack would support. Even though I've done a bit of damage, it would be very awesome if I could get the deflection out with that tube. In my head such a large structure is rigid and shouldn't flex, but my experience with it should tell me that it's very flexible because it so poorly reinforced. This just didn't click with me yesterday...man, that would make my day.

Thanks, more to follow,
Chris



I learn something new every day...especially if I am working on my LBC!
Please visit my blog and website at http://www.roundtailrestoration.com
and my YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8LASST0WuNG0-po4hK0Maw

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cmfisher4 Avatar
cmfisher4 Gold Member Chris Fisher
Mystic, CT, USA   USA
Well, John, you nailed it. It was the transverse tube. Just wasn't in there right. Still more playing to do with it, but I had to go over and see if it was going to matter, and it sure did.

Thanks, everyone, as always. I think now it's just a matter of tweaking it in, though the rear of the bonnet. behind the latch, will need some prying, I think.

The image is a terrible screen capture, but trust me that it's much better!

Chris



I learn something new every day...especially if I am working on my LBC!
Please visit my blog and website at http://www.roundtailrestoration.com
and my YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8LASST0WuNG0-po4hK0Maw


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Efp Avatar
Efp John Walsh
London, UK   GBR
Cheers Chris, glad to help, but I was only half right: you figured out what I had completely forgotten, the adjustment on those centre bolts.
Not sure if you have also noticed another thing I had forgotten, that the same bracket not only floats fore and aft but can also be packed with spacer washers to alter the tubes distance from the bonnet top. Mine had four washers on each bolt if I recall right.
I think the purpose may be to counteract the change in curve of the bonnet top trailing edge that might occur when the tube is under more tension to push the wings out. You might want to check out that curve before you finalise everything.
It’s all a 3-D balancing game of trial and error, and yes, I too have never seen this adjustment process described or discussed before in any forum or manual, though perhaps we are the only people to whom it wasn’t obvious... smiling smiley .
Best
J

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Efp Avatar
Efp John Walsh
London, UK   GBR
PS, I think that latch end will push out to line up if, as I mentioned earlier, you pack out the latch body hook with some more card gasketing, and adjust the position of the cone socket, before doing any more prying . I know you have some curvature to the bottom edge, and perhaps Wayne’s idea of straightening and reinforcing it has merit, but I think the right adjustment and tension will do most of the straightening when the bonnet is latched.

Cheers

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cmfisher4 Avatar
cmfisher4 Gold Member Chris Fisher
Mystic, CT, USA   USA
Thanks, John.

Yes, I will play with that latch area a bit before I go bending stuff. I'll compare to the other side first, too.

I think I'm going to have to do a dedicated video / write-up on this thing. Lots of lessons to learn here...as my scratch up paint can attest!!

Cheers,
Chris



I learn something new every day...especially if I am working on my LBC!
Please visit my blog and website at http://www.roundtailrestoration.com
and my YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8LASST0WuNG0-po4hK0Maw

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cmfisher4 Gold Member Chris Fisher
Mystic, CT, USA   USA
I got some more time to play last night. It's pretty close...close enough to align the doors, I think. However, I thought I'd try it without the hydraulic bonnet struts and see how it landed. Well, they are definitely putting pressure on the thing because the gaps, while okay, were different and they were also no uneven, which tell me that each strut is applying slightly different pressure (expected). While I love the things, I have decided that I want to go back to using the original bonnet stays, which I was thankfully smart enough to keep.

Unfortunately, I had to fill the hole that was originally there for it because it was all beat up, but because I intended to use the strut kit, I did not re-drill it after filling it. Does anyone have the measurements (or a good picture where I could get close enough) to where the hole should go in the wheel arch? I have a general idea, but I body worked the hole after I welded it up and I'm afraid it won't be close enough to work, since the stay kinda works like a flamingo leg to lock in...and I imagine placement is important to get this right.

Hey, Wayne, did you just put a flat piece of stock in on the horizontal portion of the bonnet (the flange that does a 90-degree bend at the very bottom and runs parallel to the sill)? I figure that's where you mean, but I want to make sure. I like that idea and figure a 5-6" piece spot-welded to that area would help a lot.

Thanks all,
Chris



I learn something new every day...especially if I am working on my LBC!
Please visit my blog and website at http://www.roundtailrestoration.com
and my YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8LASST0WuNG0-po4hK0Maw



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-13 07:52 PM by cmfisher4.

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Doug in Vegas Avatar
Doug in Vegas Douglas D
Las Vegas, NV, USA   USA
If your hinges are sound the hood shouldn't move back with a little pressure.

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cmfisher4 Avatar
cmfisher4 Gold Member Chris Fisher
Mystic, CT, USA   USA
Hey, Doug, do you mean because of the struts?



I learn something new every day...especially if I am working on my LBC!
Please visit my blog and website at http://www.roundtailrestoration.com
and my YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8LASST0WuNG0-po4hK0Maw

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trrdster Avatar
trrdster Wayne Tate
Spencer, NC, USA   USA
1949 Triumph 2000 Roadster
1970 Triumph TR6
1978 Triumph GT6 "Scooter"
1978 Triumph Spitfire "Scooter"    & more
Chris, You are right on what I was trying to get over.
I think my piece was about that long also, be careful as it's very thin in that area.
On the struts, we used the GT6 ones that come off the frame on the two Spit6's and that worked out great.
A couple of friends used the GT6 ones on the late model Spitfires and had no trouble, never did like the bracket off the radiator and took the one off I installed for someone. I thought it put to much stress on the radiator, could be just me.



Wayne
1970 TR6
2000 Jaguar XK8
1949 Triumph Roadster 2000
1978 Spitfire (rust victim)
1971 GT6 (tarp covered for 12 years, rusted inside out)
1980 Spitfire (getting all the good GT6 parts, all poly suspension and Spax shocks)

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cmfisher4 Avatar
cmfisher4 Gold Member Chris Fisher
Mystic, CT, USA   USA
Wayne, I agree that they stress the radiator and I can only conclude the bonnet as well. I took it off and drilled a hole to get the original support prop back in there. Much easier to get the gaps, though I'm not quite ready to call them done. Close, but not quite.

I'd like to thank everyone for their help through all of this. I don't believe there are any questions that I have on how this stuff all works - just trial and error now.

On to the doors!!

Cheers,
Chris



I learn something new every day...especially if I am working on my LBC!
Please visit my blog and website at http://www.roundtailrestoration.com
and my YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8LASST0WuNG0-po4hK0Maw


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