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Bonnet Wheel Arch Shape

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Bonnet Wheel Arch Shape
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  This topic is about my 1966 Triumph Spitfire MkII
cmfisher4 Avatar
cmfisher4 Gold Member Chris Fisher
Mystic, CT, USA   USA
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the bonnet wheel arches are just mirror images of each other, right? I'm back to fitting the bonnet and doing the gaps and am re-visiting the same area that I did when I was welding my sills in, and I'm having the same problems. I was to just make sure because I don't think I noticed this before, but my passenger's side doesn't rub on the bulkhead by the driver's side does...quite badly, and it did before I bought the car based on how it looked when I got it.

Enclosed are pics of the inner portion of each wheel arch. The first pic is the non-rubbing passenger's side - more rounded than the rubbing driver's side. I cut a template traced around the passenger's side to show how different it is (as shown in second pic). I'm not opposed to shaving down the driver's side, but I'd just be covering up a problem that way and I'd rather make sure first that it's correct.

I have had no evidence that any major work was ever done on this car (i.e., panel replacement / significant repairs). Everything that I cut off over the restoration has been the first time. But, I am at ground zero on the bonnet. I removed the pivot tubes and everything else while fixing it, but they don't really provide much adjustment I have found. It's all in the hinges.

Anyway, just making sure on the arch shapes. Scratching up my darn Raptor Liner firewall job - guess I'll learn how well that repairs.

Thanks,
Chris



I learn something new every day...especially if I am working on my LBC!
Please visit my blog and website at http://www.roundtailrestoration.com
and my YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8LASST0WuNG0-po4hK0Maw

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Yellowhawk Valley Avatar
walla walla, WA, USA   USA
1969 Triumph Spitfire "Walla Walla"
1969 Triumph Spitfire "Portland"
1972 Triumph Spitfire MkIV "Spokane"
1975 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Dayton"    & more
From what I recall looking at, they are mirror images of each other. That back edge where the rubber flap/seal fits against the bulkhead is shaped the same on both sides. I think they were the same forever. I have 6 bonnets 69's, early 70's and 79) sitting out in the shop, besides the ones on the cars so if it helps I can go check and confirm tomorrow.
(I used to wonder why I have so many varied photos of places and parts on my cars - then I remember doing things like this for others. It helps us all)
da



Dan Aycock
Walla Walla, Wa.
Yellowhawk Valley Spitfires
69, 69, 72, 75, 78, 79 Spitfires

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mkivmarty Avatar
mkivmarty Marty Yanik
N.E.Ohio, USA   USA
What size tires and rims are you running?

Marty

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cmfisher4 Avatar
cmfisher4 Gold Member Chris Fisher
Mystic, CT, USA   USA
Hi, Marty. I'm in the middle of a restoration, so I'm not running anything yet. I'm talking it rubbing against the body, not the wheels/tires.

Thanks,
Chris



I learn something new every day...especially if I am working on my LBC!
Please visit my blog and website at http://www.roundtailrestoration.com
and my YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8LASST0WuNG0-po4hK0Maw

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carChips Avatar
carChips Victor Harnish
Kelowna, BC, Canada   CAN
1933 MG Magnette
1973 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Chip"
1989 GMC Sierra 1500 "Bush Truck"
Ha ha, I did that too. I just bent the wheel arch out of my way. It sure tore up the paint because I never really noticed until I put a few miles on it, DOH!



'S all for now
Vic

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Doug in Vegas Avatar
Doug in Vegas Douglas D
Las Vegas, NV, USA   USA
Could b the hinges are set too far back. What's the gap like between the hood/fender and the door when it's closed?

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Yellowhawk Valley Avatar
walla walla, WA, USA   USA
1969 Triumph Spitfire "Walla Walla"
1969 Triumph Spitfire "Portland"
1972 Triumph Spitfire MkIV "Spokane"
1975 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Dayton"    & more
Chris:
I spent a while out in the shop this morning looking at the inner fender fit and shape on a bunch of cars and bonnets. The base line is; I did not see any significant (if even any) different in any of the inner fenders, ranging from Mk2, Mk3, Mk IV or 1500 bonnets. There was clearly no differences on the same bonnets. They are all like the one in your first photo with the primer showing, not the one with red showing.
There is obviously something wrong with the bonnet alignment or with the position of the cabin/bulkhead. Any chance the frame has a twist out front of the bulkhead?
da



Dan Aycock
Walla Walla, Wa.
Yellowhawk Valley Spitfires
69, 69, 72, 75, 78, 79 Spitfires

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cmfisher4 Avatar
cmfisher4 Gold Member Chris Fisher
Mystic, CT, USA   USA
Hi, Doug. I can't get the bonnet to sit down all the way without it hitting the firewall. That hinge is pulled all the way forward, but there may be some twist in it that I haven't gotten out yet (twist because the hinge positions are either side are different, not because it's bent...maybe rotated would be a better word to use.

Hi, Dan. Thanks for looking. Did you happen to notice any flare at all in those inside edges or do they just drop straight down? I doubt there's any twist to anything. The car has been 100% disassembled, by me, and I never noticed any accident damage or significant rusting of the frame. The outriggers were shot and I replaced them both, but I did so with the body mounted so I'm as confident as I can be that they were put back in the right spot. I didn't adjust any other mounting areas and the body bolts all line up.

It's got to be an adjustment problem. Like I mentioned, the pivot tubes were removed for painting, but I really don't think they give me enough wiggle room. Just going to have to play with it, I guess, I'm just trying to rule out the low-hanging fruit.

Thanks, all,
Chris



I learn something new every day...especially if I am working on my LBC!
Please visit my blog and website at http://www.roundtailrestoration.com
and my YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8LASST0WuNG0-po4hK0Maw

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Efp Avatar
Efp John Walsh
London, UK   GBR
Hi again Chris
I’m getting some serious deja vu in following your progress, so many issues I came across myself, and this is yet another.
To be honest I wasn’t too surprised when my own inner wheel arches fouled the bulkhead, or even the different degree on either side , as my bonnet was a total freehand rebuild and besides the arch panels came from different sources several years apart and stockpiled, so may well have been different pressings. With your original unmolested bonnet I am surprised. I can see no reason why the two sides should be anything but mirror images.
Yes, you may have changed the shape of the bonnet slightly in removing the support tubes, but with the exception of the rear transverse tube there is little scope for adjustment, no oval or slotted bolt holes and the way the pivot tubes hugs the curve of the wheel arches, to which they are firmly bolted precludes much movement there.
I ended up trimming both rear ends of the arches down on my car with a flap wheel to stop them scraping the tub, but I suspect your issue lies elsewhere.
I think the key thing in aligning things is to identify the relatively few points of reference which are not adjustable or negotiable and working from them.
In the case of the bonnet here you have to look at the bonnet to top scuttle gap, looking for maybe 1/4 inch gap evenly across the car, and the alignment of the lower rear corners of the front wings with the top corners of the sills. Yes of course you can move the bonnet fore and aft and up and down from the hinge points to achieve that but if the only way to achieve this alignment leaves the pivot brackets at very different heights and angles,then you know something else is wrong, maybe the tub twisted. .
If those bonnet gaps are right then everything else should flow from that. If your arches are still scraping then maybe time to crack out the flap disk.
Sorry if I’m not expressing this very clearly, it’s late and been a long day..
Cheers

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Falkon Avatar
Falkon Al Martin
Appleton, WI, USA   USA
Can't you "bend" or form the bottom edge of that wheel arch so it is farther away. It seems there is quite a bit of twist when I open my hood. A small amount of forming the arch should solve it. Grab it w/ your hands and pull on it?

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73GT666 Avatar
73GT666 Rod D
Eugene, OR, USA   USA
Did it rub before the hydraulic struts were installed? When I installed mine there was no rubbing, but the gap that I had between the lower corner of the fender and the door closed up to almost nothing. The struts apply lots of force when the hood is closed.

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cmfisher4 Avatar
cmfisher4 Gold Member Chris Fisher
Mystic, CT, USA   USA
Hi, everyone. Lots of good stuff here to work from, so thanks.

John, I get you. I'll work on all of that stuff. Like starting at the least adjustable and going from there. My guess is the PO rounded out that passenger's side at one point. Why he then didn't do the driver's side since it had a rubbing issue as well....??? confused smiley

Al, that's definitely an option and something I will do if that's all I've got left.

Rod, based on what the car looked like when I bought it in that area, it's been rubbing for a long time, so this issue precedes my ownership.

Since this is historical to the car, I don't think my work has caused it. Additionally, I have NO indications of the car ever being in a big enough accident to have caused these sorts of problems.

Enclosed in the driver's side rubbing when I bought the car.

Cheers,
Chris



I learn something new every day...especially if I am working on my LBC!
Please visit my blog and website at http://www.roundtailrestoration.com
and my YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8LASST0WuNG0-po4hK0Maw


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Yellowhawk Valley Avatar
walla walla, WA, USA   USA
1969 Triumph Spitfire "Walla Walla"
1969 Triumph Spitfire "Portland"
1972 Triumph Spitfire MkIV "Spokane"
1975 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Dayton"    & more
Chris: These are photos taken looking straight down onto the inner fender while the bonnet is standing on its back edge.
I will suggest that if the back edge of the bonnet along the scuttle edge is equal the whole width, and correct - about 3/16th inch, then the issue has to be elsewhere. If that gap along the back edge is off, then you know that the bonnet is obviously sitting crooked in the hinges.
If that gap is not right on - one of the issues can be the inner support rod on that side being bent, actually having the curve down near the end, straightened slightly.
One of the things I did not do today was to see how close those inner fender ends come to the bulkhead, but I know none of them are hitting.
Best luck!
da



Dan Aycock
Walla Walla, Wa.
Yellowhawk Valley Spitfires
69, 69, 72, 75, 78, 79 Spitfires


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  cmfisher4 thanked Yellowhawk Valley for this post
spitfire50 Avatar
spitfire50 Paul Mugford
Rochester, N.H., USA   USA
In reply to # 1600923 by Yellowhawk Valley
One of the things I did not do today was to see how close those inner fender ends come to the bulkhead, but I know none of them are hitting.
Best luck!
da
Dan,
They must come awfully close. Multiple complaints of the clips that hold the rubber wheel arch seal cutting the bulkhead paint attest to that.
All the best,
Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-09 10:42 AM by spitfire50.

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Doug in Vegas Avatar
Doug in Vegas Douglas D
Las Vegas, NV, USA   USA
Cut off enough to clear with the hinge mounts all the way in so you can adjust to the doors when closed.

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