Visit our Twitter feed for more great content
TRExp

Spitfire & GT6 Forum

Anyone have experience with Roller Rockers? Adjustment issues

Moss Motors
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor

70tbolt Avatar
70tbolt Geoff Ullmann
Morgan Hill, CA, USA   USA
History:

New 78 Spitfire motor with roller rockers (brand unknown see photo) installed by PO.

Has Kent road cam with valve clearances of .020 intake and .024 exhaust

After 500 miles I adjusted them and before adjusting, the valve clearances were loose.

Went to adjust them today after another 1K miles and had major play on all rockers, very sloppy and rocker arm up and down movement on the shaft. Some valve clearances were over 1/8 inch!

Don't really know much about these and if the rocker arm play up and down is normal when they are that loose?

Adjusted them today back to speck and runs fine and will check again tomorrow after it cools down to see if any changes. After adjusting them there was not the sloppiness and the play seemed normal?

Any ideas as to why so much play after only 1K miles? Nuts that hold the assembly to the head are at the proper torque settings.

Thanks!
Geoff



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-28 07:25 PM by 70tbolt.

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <

Attachments:
1975_Triumph_1500_001.jpg    6.9 KB
1975_Triumph_1500_001.jpg

F1000RACER Avatar
F1000RACER Platinum Member Gary H
Alpine, CA, USA   USA
In reply to # 1592869 by 70tbolt History:

New 78 Spitfire motor with roller rockers (brand unknown see photo) installed by PO.

Has Kent road cam with valve clearances of .020 intake and .024 exhaust

After 500 miles I adjusted them and before adjusting, the valve clearances were loose.

Went to adjust them today after another 1K miles and had major play on all rockers, very sloppy and rocker arm up and down movement on the shaft. Some valve clearances were over 1/8 inch!

Don't really know much about these and if the rocker arm play up and down is normal when they are that loose?

Adjusted them today back to speck and runs fine and will check again tomorrow after it cools down to see if any changes. After adjusting them there was not the sloppiness and the play seemed normal?

Any ideas as to why so much play after only 1K miles? Nuts that hold the assembly to the head are at the proper torque settings.

Thanks!
Geoff

The short answer here is No, they should not have any detectable play. This really defeats the purpose if they have any radial play and you will likely never achieve consistent valve lash.

If this were my engine I'd want to remove the rocker assembly and do some detective work to see where it's coming from.

GH

Tonyfixit Avatar
Tonyfixit Tony M
Duncan, BC, Canada   CAN
In reply to # 1592873 by F1000RACER
In reply to # 1592869 by 70tbolt History:

New 78 Spitfire motor with roller rockers (brand unknown see photo) installed by PO.

Has Kent road cam with valve clearances of .020 intake and .024 exhaust

After 500 miles I adjusted them and before adjusting, the valve clearances were loose.

Went to adjust them today after another 1K miles and had major play on all rockers, very sloppy and rocker arm up and down movement on the shaft. Some valve clearances were over 1/8 inch!

Don't really know much about these and if the rocker arm play up and down is normal when they are that loose?

Adjusted them today back to speck and runs fine and will check again tomorrow after it cools down to see if any changes. After adjusting them there was not the sloppiness and the play seemed normal?

Any ideas as to why so much play after only 1K miles? Nuts that hold the assembly to the head are at the proper torque settings.

Thanks!
Geoff

The short answer here is No, they should not have any detectable play. This really defeats the purpose if they have any radial play and you will likely never achieve consistent valve lash.

If this were my engine I'd want to remove the rocker assembly and do some detective work to see where it's coming from.

GH

Agree + 1000

My gut says that the ONLY thing that is likely to cause this is accelerated wear in the rockers. If these are roller bearings you do not want them to suddenly fall apart and infest the rest of your engine angry smiley

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <
Voda2000 Avatar
Voda2000 Andrew McMillan
Winnipeg, MB, Canada   CAN
You mean the rockers move on the shaft not that the push rods can suddenly move up and down 1/8” right?



1978 Triumph Spitfire

70tbolt Avatar
70tbolt Geoff Ullmann
Morgan Hill, CA, USA   USA
Thanks will do.

Geoff

F1000RACER Avatar
F1000RACER Platinum Member Gary H
Alpine, CA, USA   USA
In reply to # 1592892 by 70tbolt Thanks will do.

Geoff

What brand of motorcycle is that I see in your garage photo?

GH

70tbolt Avatar
70tbolt Geoff Ullmann
Morgan Hill, CA, USA   USA
In reply to # 1592896 by F1000RACER
In reply to # 1592892 by 70tbolt Thanks will do.

Geoff

What brand of motorcycle is that I see in your garage photo?

GH

1963 BSA Gold Star Scrambler also called Rocket Gold Star Scrambler. One of only 272 built from 62-63. Sadly just sold it this past year. More info:
http://goldstarspitfires.weebly.com/

F1000RACER Avatar
F1000RACER Platinum Member Gary H
Alpine, CA, USA   USA
That's what I thought it was...probably my all time favorite bike from the 60's. Bet that was hard to part with.

GH

Doug in Vegas Avatar
Doug in Vegas Douglas D
Las Vegas, NV, USA   USA
Years ago I read .01 on gap along with a general acceptance that roller rockers are harder to adjust.

GT6M Avatar
GT6M Markus Bewley
Scaryport, Cumbria, North West Englandshire, UK   GBR
there a few things that can be amiss eer
1, if they got K nuts on em, then thee,s can be worn, so working loose.
it happened with an OE set I had, new K nuts sorted it.

2, its a Kent cam, t,me, thats bad news, as any ive had wer med frae v v soft cheese
so check yer lifts on all lobes, as wont be suprised if lobes ev gon

3, could also be followers get,n indented

4, if the adjuster studs ev got a allen hole thru middle for adjusments,
then if the hole is too bigg, then the stud can stretch. then threads brek off,
this was an issue wid the early Titans I got, untill they reduced the adjuster wol size

them rockers look like the TLD offerings
can ye bung a bigger ,clearer pic up, as v hard pressed t,see em clearly

M



Scaryport, Cumbria, Farr Northwest Englandshire, UK

jsukey Avatar
jsukey Jason Sukey
Amherst, OH, USA   USA
I've experienced the same exact thing using the roller rockers on my gt6. The are the bushed type NOT the roller bearing type. I knew better...but when I installed them at first, they did have too much play to begin with, and that only got worse very very quickly. Within 1000 miles, they had worn almost completely thru the bushing. I then rebushed them all, and honed them to proper clearance fit to a brand new HD shaft. Since then, they have been perfect. I suspect that once the clearance opens up, all the oil spills out instead of providing a film for the bushings to run on.

Jason

70tbolt Avatar
70tbolt Geoff Ullmann
Morgan Hill, CA, USA   USA
In reply to # 1593050 by jsukey I've experienced the same exact thing using the roller rockers on my gt6. The are the bushed type NOT the roller bearing type. I knew better...but when I installed them at first, they did have too much play to begin with, and that only got worse very very quickly. Within 1000 miles, they had worn almost completely thru the bushing. I then rebushed them all, and honed them to proper clearance fit to a brand new HD shaft. Since then, they have been perfect. I suspect that once the clearance opens up, all the oil spills out instead of providing a film for the bushings to run on.

Jason

Yep same thing. Took mine apart today and they are of the bushed type. The shaft was scored where the rockers are but the bushings were not as worn as yours. I've decided to go back to an original set up mainly due to cost plus the one I have has no identifying marks to know where to get parts.

Geoff

70tbolt Avatar
70tbolt Geoff Ullmann
Morgan Hill, CA, USA   USA
Update:

Compared the roller rocker oil supply input hole with the stock one. See photo


As best as I can tell the distance between the centers of the two holes on the stock assembly is 16/32" and the centers on RR assembly are 15/32". But note the difference in oil feed holes.

Stock is 19/64" and RR 13/64". Stock assembly has more room for error. This most likely is the reason for the lack of oil to my RR assembly causing the failure IMO.


Geoff


Attachments:
IMG_0997.JPG    37.8 KB
IMG_0997.JPG

spitfire50 Avatar
spitfire50 Paul Mugford
Rochester, N.H., USA   USA
In reply to # 1595420 by 70tbolt Update:

Compared the roller rocker oil supply input hole with the stock one. See photo


As best as I can tell the distance between the centers of the two holes on the stock assembly is 16/32" and the centers on RR assembly are 15/32". But note the difference in oil feed holes.

Stock is 19/64" and RR 13/64". Stock assembly has more room for error. This most likely is the reason for the lack of oil to my RR assembly causing the failure IMO.


Geoff

Geoff,
It is easy to make tracings of the footprints of those pedestals and compare them on top of the engine. That would give a better indication of just how much the oil supply might have been restricted.
All the best,
Paul

Tonyfixit Avatar
Tonyfixit Tony M
Duncan, BC, Canada   CAN
The oil supply to the rocker shaft is a metered flow from the rear cam bearing. Depending on your engine andthe weight of oil you use it can take some time after a cold start for the rockers to get a steady oil supply.

I have recorded up to 2 minutes!

It was because of this, many years ago, that I plugged the oilway in the engine block and fitted a RESTRICTED auxiliary oil feed to supply a restricted supply of oil to the rockers at full oil pressure.

But please note, this is NOT the kit commonly sold by popular vendors, and considerable work was done in assesing the correct line restriction .

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <

To add your reply, or post your own questions




Registration is FREE and takes less than a minute!


Having trouble posting or changing forum settings?
Read the Forum Help (FAQ) or contact the webmaster