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Passenger side widow goes up too high

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70tbolt Geoff Ullmann
Morgan Hill, CA, USA   USA
The window comes up so far that the white plastic glass guide pushes up the inside window pad in the front and back. The widow frame track is down as far as it will go and is in the same location (distance from the bottom of the window rail frame to the door bottom) as the driver side door that doesn't have the problem. When I roll up the driver side window I hear it hit something when it stops. The only thing I can see it hit is the outside weather strip at the end. The PO installed everything during the restoration process. Can't seem to find anything on the internet.

Thanks!
Geoff

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Attachments:
Door.JPG    18 KB
Door.JPG

TheZster Avatar
TheZster Steven Z
SAINT LOUIS, MO, USA   USA
I just finished installing those nylon guides in my 78 spit window channel.... It would appear your guide is installed incorrectly.... the guide sits on the very bottom corner of the window frame - about 3 inches below the bottom edge of the glass - and sits "inside" the vertical window channel on the outboard side... There is no way for it to show above the door itself.... (See below) (the new nylon guide is behind the new nut/bolt - the one sitting there is just an example of what they look like....)

Additionally: I can't tell from your photo - but I don't see the "bulge" on the forward half of that nylon piece (could be my eyes)... That bulge could never squeeze past the window opening in the door.....

"IF" this is the case - it's not difficult to repair - but requires pulling the door card to get at the base of the window frame....

Let me know if I can help with my recent experience...

Z



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-11 03:08 PM by TheZster.


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IMG_0347[1].JPG    46.2 KB
IMG_0347[1].JPG

TheZster Avatar
TheZster Steven Z
SAINT LOUIS, MO, USA   USA
Got to wondering what it looked like from underneath the frame.... got creative with phone and flashlight.... photo below

If you look carefully - you will notice the yellowing nylon piece that actually goes up to the glass .... This would seem to be what you are seeing - the top edge of it - which is thin on both sides and wraps both sides of the glass a bit (or so it seems).

Below that (to the left in the photo) is the new white nylon "guide" that rides inside the window track. This guide prevents window wobble - and slides up the vertical channel until it reaches the spot where the window channel gets narrow - thereby limiting upward travel of the window.... I'm guessing your either missing these guides - or they are worn to the point of slipping inside the narrow portion of the vertical channel....

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IMG_0348[1].JPG    31 KB
IMG_0348[1].JPG

Yellowhawk Valley Avatar
walla walla, WA, USA   USA
1969 Triumph Spitfire "Walla Walla"
1969 Triumph Spitfire "Portland"
1972 Triumph Spitfire MkIV "Spokane"
1975 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Dayton"    & more
It would appear that part of the nylon guide is missing,. They would have to be worn down to almost nothing to get up past that narrowed end of the guides. Gotta pull it out again and redo.

Dan

TheZster Avatar
TheZster Steven Z
SAINT LOUIS, MO, USA   USA
In reply to # 1512825 by Yellowhawk Valley It would appear that part of the nylon guide is missing,. They would have to be worn down to almost nothing to get up past that narrowed end of the guides. Gotta pull it out again and redo.

Dan

Got to respectfully disagree Dan..... His photo shows nylon right at the base of the glass...... which is a different piece of nylon that the channel guide we figured out on my vehicle last week. The replaced guide in question is easily 2-3 inches lower.... (ck the photos above - bright white - new..... yellowed - 40 yrs old)....

I think his entire guide is broken/missing - as were both of mine..... causing the same problem....

Z



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-11 03:56 PM by TheZster.

Yellowhawk Valley Avatar
walla walla, WA, USA   USA
1969 Triumph Spitfire "Walla Walla"
1969 Triumph Spitfire "Portland"
1972 Triumph Spitfire MkIV "Spokane"
1975 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Dayton"    & more
In reply to # 1512828 by TheZster
In reply to # 1512825 by Yellowhawk Valley It would appear that part of the nylon guide is missing,. They would have to be worn down to almost nothing to get up past that narrowed end of the guides. Gotta pull it out again and redo.

Dan

Got to respectfully disagree Dan..... His photo shows nylon right at the base of the glass...... The guide in question is easily 2-3 inches lower.... (ck the photos above)....

I think his entire guide is broken/missing (could well be) - as were both of mine..... causing the same problem....

Z

There should be pieces on both sides of the glass and if they are not there you will see one as shown but it will allow the glass to go up. But it has to be missing or severely worn to allow it to go up. A piece on one side only will look like in his picture. The error has to be occurring on both ends, front and rear of the glass, or it will go up crooked. Not sure that is happening based on the amount of bottom frame showing.

See attached photos. There should be an equally thick piece both inside and outside of the frame piece (photo 2). That stops the narrow guide piece at the top (photo 2) from extending above the door channel - which appears to be what we are seeing in his photo.


Dan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-11 04:18 PM by Yellowhawk Valley.


Attachments:
Guide blocks.jpg    34.6 KB
Guide blocks.jpg

nylon guide 2.JPG    21 KB
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TheZster Avatar
TheZster Steven Z
SAINT LOUIS, MO, USA   USA
In reply to # 1512833 by Yellowhawk Valley
In reply to # 1512828 by TheZster
In reply to # 1512825 by Yellowhawk Valley It would appear that part of the nylon guide is missing,. They would have to be worn down to almost nothing to get up past that narrowed end of the guides. Gotta pull it out again and redo.

Dan

Got to respectfully disagree Dan..... His photo shows nylon right at the base of the glass...... The guide in question is easily 2-3 inches lower.... (ck the photos above)....

I think his entire guide is broken/missing (could well be) - as were both of mine..... causing the same problem....

Z

There should be pieces on both sides of the glass and if they are not there you will see one as shown but it will allow the glass to go up. But it has to be missing or severely worn to allow it to go up. A piece on one side only will look like in his picture. The error has to be occurring on both ends, front and rear of the glass, or it will go up crooked. Not sure that is happening based on the amount of bottom frame showing.

See attached photos. There should be an equally thick piece both inside and outside of the frame piece (photo 2). That stops the narrow guide piece at the top (photo 2) from extending above the door channel - which appears to be what we are seeing in his photo.


Dan

Whoops.... Your example shows a part I hadn't noticed before.... there I go - mouthing off to the guru.... LOL.... I respectfully apologize for doubting you....

Z

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Yellowhawk Valley Avatar
walla walla, WA, USA   USA
1969 Triumph Spitfire "Walla Walla"
1969 Triumph Spitfire "Portland"
1972 Triumph Spitfire MkIV "Spokane"
1975 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Dayton"    & more
Naw, you're ok. I keep looking at his photo and am wondering too, if perhaps that whole front piece, the one with the part # cut in half in the parts book photo, from his assembly. It just does not look to have the right shape to that area where the plastic is attached or sitting.
Dan


Attachments:
nylon piece 2a.JPG    22.4 KB
nylon piece 2a.JPG

TheZster Avatar
TheZster Steven Z
SAINT LOUIS, MO, USA   USA
that's part of what has me messed up.... his photo - the nylon piece looks rectangular (much like my replacement piece - without the bulge) - but if the part you reference were simply missing - would that much horizontal nylon be showing?

I think it's time for someone to remove a door card - and check out his window frame assembly.... we're guessing..... I'm confident he's missing something - or multiple somethings.....

Z

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70tbolt Geoff Ullmann
Morgan Hill, CA, USA   USA
I think I figured out how the window is suppose to stop. See photos.

The bolt for holding the white plastic window block guide (in the picture above) has a long bolt going through that sticks out about 1/4" or so that is suppose to hit this metal tab sticking out at the top front track. The PO had a bolt that was too short. Works fine now but is a little Mickey Mouse. Seems like there should be some nylon cover on the tab so you don't have metal to metal.

Geoff


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TheZster Avatar
TheZster Steven Z
SAINT LOUIS, MO, USA   USA
http://www.triumphexp.com/phile/8/96488/Guide_Channel1.JPG


Check out the link above... (copied and pasted from an archive thread) it is a photo of the window channel and how it narrows at the top of the door to stop the window from going higher. This narrowing is where the nylon guides stop rising.... front and back channels are the same configuration...

https://www.canleyclassics.com/triumph-spitfire-mkiv/1500-door-glass-and-channels

This link is a catalogue diagram showing a clean version of the same.... notice the reduced width of the channel at the top....

I fear your "bolt" solution is not going to do what you want to do....

My 78 spit had a similar issue so I replaced the guides..... no bolts do any stopping of motion..... in fact, if they are to long - the window jams before going all the way up (I had to shorten mine)... I don't think they changed the design from 78 to 80... but I've been wrong before.....

Luck!!

Z



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-11 06:19 PM by TheZster.

70tbolt Geoff Ullmann
Morgan Hill, CA, USA   USA
Thanks
Mine does look like that but it is not a stop. As you say it narrows and it secures the window a bit more when the window is up.

Thanks
Geoff



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-11 06:50 PM by 70tbolt.

Yellowhawk Valley Avatar
walla walla, WA, USA   USA
1969 Triumph Spitfire "Walla Walla"
1969 Triumph Spitfire "Portland"
1972 Triumph Spitfire MkIV "Spokane"
1975 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Dayton"    & more
Quote: Check out the link above... (copied and pasted from an archive thread) it is a photo of the window channel and how it narrows at the top of the door to stop the window from going higher. This narrowing is where the nylon guides stop rising.... front and back channels are the same configuration...

I should do a better job of putting my name on my photo's. This is from the same car as the others I already posted. Before it was cleaned up.

Geoff; our point is that your window mechanism should have these pieces and act as a stop when they reach the narrowed section. That is the whole purpose of that section. Not sure why yours is not working that way.

Dan

TheZster Avatar
TheZster Steven Z
SAINT LOUIS, MO, USA   USA
In reply to # 1512878 by Yellowhawk Valley
Quote: Check out the link above... (copied and pasted from an archive thread) it is a photo of the window channel and how it narrows at the top of the door to stop the window from going higher. This narrowing is where the nylon guides stop rising.... front and back channels are the same configuration...

I should do a better job of putting my name on my photo's. This is from the same car as the others I already posted. Before it was cleaned up.

Geoff; our point is that your window mechanism should have these pieces and act as a stop when they reach the narrowed section. That is the whole purpose of that section. Not sure why yours is not working that way.

Dan

I was going to give you credit for it Dan... but considering how ugly that channel was, I thought maybe I shouldn't... confused smiley You sent that to me while helping me with my channel/guides.... for which I do give you all the credit for my success on that one..... Thx...

Yellowhawk Valley Avatar
walla walla, WA, USA   USA
1969 Triumph Spitfire "Walla Walla"
1969 Triumph Spitfire "Portland"
1972 Triumph Spitfire MkIV "Spokane"
1975 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Dayton"    & more
That would be ok, it was just a before picture anyway. It is all shiny now.
Dan

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