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Canley 25-65-1, CM6013AR Camshaft

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colodad Avatar
colodad Silver Member Calvin Williams
Grand Junction, CO, USA   USA
1979 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Spitty"
79 Spit, 9:1 flatops, head work for higher compression, oil passage work.
30 minutes with breakin oil, then 400 mile oil & filter change to 20/50 VR1 oil.
I specified new cam, but after checking the box it was a reprofiled cam (aka reground?)
11,820 miles on this camshaft. I'm not happy with the lobe tips flaking away...
The cam lobe's lift was declining, on inspection I found the reason why...
I remember a comment about tappet failures, haven't pulled mine yet to see the damage.

(edit: for the sake of future readers, and those that think the tappets can be removed with the head still bolted to the block--- you can not remove the tappets (aka lifters)
because part of the head is over the hole that houses the tappet)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-09 02:16 PM by colodad.

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cwIMG_7237 CM6013AR #25-65-1.JPG    36.3 KB
cwIMG_7237 CM6013AR #25-65-1.JPG

cwIMG_3543 CM6013AR premature flaking.jpg    29.5 KB
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cwIMG_3544 CM6013AR valve #7's cam lobe wear after 11,820 miles.jpg    29.1 KB
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cwIMG_6659 Canley CM6013AR reprofiled Camshaft.jpg    11.9 KB
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clshore Carter Shore
Beverly Hills, FL, USA   USA
In reply to # 1512210 by colodad 79 Spit, 9:1 flatops, head work for higher compression, oil passage work.
30 minutes with breakin oil, then 400 mile oil & filter change to 20/50 VR1 oil.
I specified new cam, but after checking the box it was a reprofiled cam (aka reground?)
11,820 miles on this camshaft. I'm not happy with the lobe tips flaking away...
The cam lobe's lift was declining, on inspection I found the reason why...
I remember a comment about tappet failures, haven't pulled mine yet to see the damage.

Well, FWIW, I've seen even less miles with a regrind.
Although it's usually the ramps and the base circle where material is ground away, not the lobe tips.

What kind of springs and spring pressures are you running?

Kai @ Wishbone Classics has published some lifter information on his site, it's worth a read.

14GPDJENGINEERING Avatar
Silver Spring, MD, USA   USA
Yeah I've seen lots of those. Sometimes tolerances stack up so that a tappet does not rotate.



Dennis smiling smiley

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colodad Avatar
colodad Silver Member Calvin Williams
Grand Junction, CO, USA   USA
1979 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Spitty"
standard springs that Canley sent with the camshaft.
found 2 more bad lobes..


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cwIMG_3636.jpg    40.6 KB
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Doug in Vegas Avatar
Doug in Vegas Douglas D
Las Vegas, NV, USA   USA
I figure 50k between top ends on these classics.

Tonyfixit Avatar
Tonyfixit Tony M
Duncan, BC, Canada   CAN
You did not mention it, but I assume you used a cam lube on assembly?

Pulling the lifters will be next, please post picks.

65or66 Gold Member Jim B
Lake village, IN, USA   USA
1965 Triumph Spitfire MkII
1973 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Jusanudda Munny Pit"
Wow! That's disappointing, and I don't even have a stake in it. Calvin, I can't imagine how you must feel.

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grumpicus Steve Jackson
Leicester, Leicestershire, UK   GBR
Calvin - very sorry to see those images, I know how it feels.....sad smiley

One thing which struck me immediately - the label in the cardboard box that the cam came in. The font used is identical to that used on parts sold under the 'County' brand, and a quick investigation of the CM6013 cam brought up this:- https://psautoparts-store.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=837_206_212_414&product_id=783

PS Autoparts are a UK parts supplier, and sell a lot of County parts. The quality is usually pretty good, but the reference CM6013 seems to indicate to me that you've been sold a replacement reground standard cam for the large journal 1300/1500. I also seem to remember that Canley's 1500 cams with the Mk3 profile were new items, not regrinds. Hope you can get it sorted.

clshore Carter Shore
Beverly Hills, FL, USA   USA
I suspect you will see the 'bullseye' wear pattern on lifters from the worn lobe positions.
Good thing you caught it early though.

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billspit Bill Kea
Moore, Spartanburg, SC, USA   USA
That is very discouraging, as I have a re-ground cam from BPNW in my 1500. I hope I don't have the same problem. I still haven't started it yet.

clshore Carter Shore
Beverly Hills, FL, USA   USA
In reply to # 1512328 by billspit That is very discouraging, as I have a re-ground cam from BPNW in my 1500. I hope I don't have the same problem. I still haven't started it yet.

OTOH, I have seen reground cams that lasted forever (or at least as long as the motor it was in).
Camshaft roulette.
Some folks talk about having the cam hardened after grinding, but that often winds up costing about the same as a new cam.
Many cam regrinders offer that service, but most of them will say that it's usually not needed.
Do a search on the subject.

quikrx Ralph Hansen
Antioch, IL, USA   USA
1962 Triumph Herald 1200
1969 Triumph Spitfire MkIII "Gloria"
1987 Mazda RX-7 "Mistress"
2003 Toyota Celica GT-S "Natasha"    & more
looks like the hardness has been done in - did you break in the cam per instruction? have seen a few that failed due to improper break in - the break in when done properly actually hardens the lobes

Tonyfixit Avatar
Tonyfixit Tony M
Duncan, BC, Canada   CAN
I would hold off blaming the cam until we see the lifters.

There have been a whole bunch of BAD lifters on the market for several years now.

There was a recent thread on the TR6 forum addressing this.

colodad Avatar
colodad Silver Member Calvin Williams
Grand Junction, CO, USA   USA
1979 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Spitty"
In reply to # 1512268 by Tonyfixit You did not mention it, but I assume you used a cam lube on assembly? Pulling the lifters will be next, please post picks.
Yes on that Tony, I used assembly lube on the cam lobes, cam journals, lifters faces, guides, bearing shells, thrust washers, rocker shaft, and more.

In reply to # 1512342 by quikrx looks like the hardness has been done in - did you break in the cam per instruction? have seen a few that failed due to improper break in - the break in when done properly actually hardens the lobes
Ralph, I did it correct, followed the instructions. I used Brad Penn break in oil, ran the engine at recommended rpm range for the 30 minutes, then another 400 miles on the road to seat the piston rings. Drained that oil and refilled with Brad Penn 20/50, and a new oil filter. I switched oil after 4000 miles to 20/50 VR1 . The only weight change was a few months ago, VR1 10/30. for about 800 miles. I didn't like the 10/30 cause it would thin out when hot, dropped the oil pressure about 5 lbs, so I went back to 20/50. Oil analysis showed less than 2ppm bearing metals.

I'll post photos of the tappets after I pull them.


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Tonyfixit Avatar
Tonyfixit Tony M
Duncan, BC, Canada   CAN
Calvin, your vides show that you are a very thorough guy when it comes to working on you engine.
I did not suspect, for one minute, that you would not use a proper lube when fitting the cam.

I should point out though, many people have a lot of hate for Lucas products. I personally have no experience or oppinions (on their assembly lube) but know some cam manufacturers have very set oppinions as to what specific CAM lube to use.

Personally I feel much of the controversy about failed camshafts has been blamed on the lubrication unfairly. I honestly think there has been a trend for poor quality cams, and (more so) poor quality lifters in recent years.

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