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Re: Carbs
#16
DerbyRam54 Neville Wardle
Branford, Connecticut, USA   USA
I agree with Lizzard here, the problem is probably in the float bowl and you can remove that without disturbing the rest of the carb. If you are really careful you might manage to remove the bowl without damaging the gasket.

If you were unlucky enough to tear the gasket, a gasket pack from Burlen would be fairly inexpensive, about $10 at the current exchange rate which is significantly less than the service kit CDSK7. The gasket pack is what it says so it does not include a new needle valve. Most of the more generic repair kits sold by outfits such as the Roadster Factory include that part although not some of the other parts included in Burlen's service kit. It's a bit hard to do direct price comparisons.

I don't know what the shipping time to Canada would be, my order this summer arrived in just under a week allowing for time lost while they contacted me re shipping charges. I'd ordered the book on the SU company and it was very heavy, they didn't want me to be surprised when the charges were more than the web site indicated, which I thought was pretty decent of them to ask.

I'm not sure when the brass tags came in, the carbs I have for my TR6 project have them but they are a couple of years later than the GT6 would be so it may be that GT6 carbs didn't have them. On the other hand, those screws that hold the diaphragm cover on do not look original to me, so it may be that the tags were lost when the screws were lost (or chewed up beyond further use). The tag was usually on the front, right hand side screw.

A 3323F/3223R was a 150CDS fitted to a 1969-70 MkII, probably not US market, and did not have a temperature compensator. Your carbs are, as Dave B says, 150CDSEs which also went on the MkII, presumably for the US. I believe the E stood for emissions.

Since you'll need to take the carb off to follow Lizzard's advice you could look for any identifying marks at that time. You could also look at the engine number and try to work out from that what model year your engine is from. That plus the needle number would help pin point the exact carb, although that information really isn't needed for buying the more common parts. It's good to know though for the future because it can help you get the right parts where there were changes between apparently identical carbs. That practice though tended to become more common as the emissions controls became more critical. There's not a lot of variations between CDSE carbs for a GT6, a cursory glance at the reference catalogue seems to suggest that the temperature compensator changed a couple of times, but that's about it. The temperature compensator is that oblong object on the right hand side of the carb in your pictures, above the Tim Horton's cup.

Burlen's site has a number of very useful technical documents including this one on the CDSE: http://zenithcarb.co.uk/zencdsecd2/?___store=zenith

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Re: Carbs
#17
regnaston Dale Sanger
Belle River, Ontario, Canada   CAN
1965 Triumph Spitfire "Frankenspit"
In reply to # 1496658 by Lizzard What problem are you trying to get at with the rebuild kits other than the fuel bowl over flow ?
If the over flow is the only problem I'd suggest not rebuilding the carbs .
....................
I'd suggest pulling one float bowl , cleaning it till it shines , replacing the needle and seat , setting the float level and then putting it back together and taking it for a drive . If it starts and drives well , then I'd suggest pulling the other carbs float bowl for the same same .



Perhaps that is a better idea than a complete rebuild if it isnt needed. It could be that old fuel has just gummed up the existing needle. The PO had not driven it in 2 years so the gas was 2 years old. I did top up the tank with premium fuel and added Seafoam to it just to try and counteract the existing fuel (didnt want to have to drain it, but I might have to)

I was going through the trunk (which had some parts in it that I have not looked at yet) and found these


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Re: Carbs
#18
DerbyRam54 Neville Wardle
Branford, Connecticut, USA   USA
The piece of paper in the three ring binder plastic protector appears to be a description of your car, a 1965 Spitfire fitted with the engine from a GT6 of unspecified vintage.

The ziploc bag appears to contain a number of gaskets related to the carburetters, probably surplus from previous repairs. They are surplus because the contents of the other plastic bag (a generic repair kit) include gaskets and o-rings for a number of different carburetters. I have to confess to being a bit of a pack rat myself and have a similar collection of gaskets which are probably no use whatsoever but might somehow be handy to have in a pinch.

The Zenith bag is interesting, it looks like there is a copper washer or gasket of the kind that goes under the needle valve. What else is in that bag?

As for the Victoria British catalog and its worth and merits, I would defer to other people's opinions. I think they have their own parts numbering scheme as does Moss which makes it hard to identify parts if you are working from a factory parts book.

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Re: Carbs
#19
Outfect Avatar
Outfect Dave B
La Sal, Utah, USA   USA
1940 Ford N Series Tractors "Henry"
1951 Other Not Listed "SnowMan"
1979 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "White October"
1980 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Tangerine Dream"
Dale,

Before spending $125 with Burlen, I'd try something simple. The PO was nearly on it. Spray the carb cleaner down the fuel inlet pipe then
try and blow it out with compressed air. That needle valve opening is 1.5mm so two year old ethanol fuel could easily have stuck it open.
Spraying it in the vent will clean the vent and eventually come up the metering jet but not going to do much for the fuel needle valve.
If that works for you then taking them off and cleaning both float bowls and needles would probably solve your problem. Seafoam usually
cleans up most things in a tank or two.

If you don't have tags and there is no serial # stamped in the body then the needle is the next best bet
to give you the exact serial #. No really going to matter much as all the parts that need repair/replacing
are the same from carb to carb.

Your PO has been in there and done something as those bolts holding the suction covers usually get used after
you've stripped the Pozidrive screws that were original by using a Phillips screwdriver on a seized screw.

BTW, Victoria British sells genuine Zenith Stromberg factory parts from Burlen EXCEPT for the rebuilt kit. They are either
British SUperior or Royze. I forget. Either is fine.


DaveInUtah



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-11-08 01:31 PM by Outfect.

Re: Carbs
#20
Outfect Avatar
Outfect Dave B
La Sal, Utah, USA   USA
1940 Ford N Series Tractors "Henry"
1951 Other Not Listed "SnowMan"
1979 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "White October"
1980 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Tangerine Dream"
Neville,

From what I can tell the brass tags came in with the adjustable needles. If you have the
solid brass screw-in float bowl plug you probably have the stamp. The brass covered
plug seems to be the adjustable needle carbs with tags.

... although any absolutes from ZS is to be taken with a grain of salt.

They still insist that 1975 Jag XKE came with the 6 cylinder engine with
auto choke carbs.


DaveInUtah

Re: Carbs
#21
regnaston Dale Sanger
Belle River, Ontario, Canada   CAN
1965 Triumph Spitfire "Frankenspit"
In reply to # 1496715 by DerbyRam54 The piece of paper in the three ring binder plastic protector appears to be a description of your car, a 1965 Spitfire fitted with the engine from a GT6 of unspecified vintage.

The ziploc bag appears to contain a number of gaskets related to the carburetters, probably surplus from previous repairs. They are surplus because the contents of the other plastic bag (a generic repair kit) include gaskets and o-rings for a number of different carburetters. I have to confess to being a bit of a pack rat myself and have a similar collection of gaskets which are probably no use whatsoever but might somehow be handy to have in a pinch.

The Zenith bag is interesting, it looks like there is a copper washer or gasket of the kind that goes under the needle valve. What else is in that bag?

As for the Victoria British catalog and its worth and merits, I would defer to other people's opinions. I think they have their own parts numbering scheme as does Moss which makes it hard to identify parts if you are working from a factory parts book.


It was the needle as well in there

Replaced the needle in the carb that was gushing fuel and it fixed the problem

Re: Carbs
#22
TheFlash300 Avatar
TheFlash300 Dave Gutknecht
Rochester Hills, Michigan, USA   USA
1979 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Lil Spit"
Brass Tags did come on all the ZS Carbs. I have a 3172 with the brass tag. They are attached to a posi drive screw on the dashpot cover.
Carb Model Car Metering Needle
3092 150CD GT6 66-68 6J - B17316
3172 150CD GT6 66-68 6W
3168 150CDSE GT6 67-70 B5AH
3223 150CDS GT6 69-70 6AC - B19204
3225 150CDSE GT6 69-70 B5AJ - B20660/B19101
3369 150CDSE GT6 70-72 B5AJ - B20660/B19101
3335 150CDSE GT6 71-72 B5BT - B21052
3384 150CDSE GT6 71-72 B5AJ - B20660/B19101
3426 150CDSE GT6 71-72 B5CF - B21769
3432 150CDSE GT6 72-74 B5CF - B21769
3507 150CDSEV GT6 72-74 B5CF - B21769
3277 150CDSE Spitfire 69-70 B5AY
3336 150CDSE Spitfire 71-72 B5AY
3427 150CDSE Spitfire 71-72 B5CH - B21977
3506 150CDSEV Spitfire 72-74 B5CH - B21977
3612 150CDSEVX Spitfire 73-74 B5CH - B21977
3686 150CD4 Spitfire 74-76 B1DL - B23655
3643 150CD4T Spitfire 75-76 Cal B1DL - B23655
3837 150CD4T Spitfire 76-77 Fed B1BL - B21666/B25279
3864 150CD4T Spitfire 76-78 Cal 45L - B25350
3961 150CD4T Spitfire 77-on Cal 45N - B26011
3960 150CD4T Spitfire 78-on Fed 45P - B26067

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Re: Carbs
#23
Outfect Avatar
Outfect Dave B
La Sal, Utah, USA   USA
1940 Ford N Series Tractors "Henry"
1951 Other Not Listed "SnowMan"
1979 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "White October"
1980 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Tangerine Dream"
Dave,

Do you have a photo of the 3172 tag? I've never seen a 150CD that
didn't have a fillister head screw outside of the Volvo Penta marine carbs
with hex heads.


DaveInUtah

Re: Carbs
#24
Outfect Avatar
Outfect Dave B
La Sal, Utah, USA   USA
1940 Ford N Series Tractors "Henry"
1951 Other Not Listed "SnowMan"
1979 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "White October"
1980 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Tangerine Dream"
Dale,

Great. And the price was right. Clean the other one. The Seafoam
should cure anymore problems.

DaveInUtah

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Re: Carbs
#25
DerbyRam54 Neville Wardle
Branford, Connecticut, USA   USA
It did work out well, didn't it? Maybe the PO knew what was needed (since apparently the parts were right there) but lost interest.

I think the best bit was that we all learned something out of this.

Re: Carbs
#26
TheFlash300 Avatar
TheFlash300 Dave Gutknecht
Rochester Hills, Michigan, USA   USA
1979 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Lil Spit"
I have a few pictures in my journal. I decided to change the dashpot screws to Hex head Cap screws.
http://www.triumphexp.com/journal/TheFlash300/15901
Closeup of Carb Dashpot Screws

In reply to # 1496764 by Outfect Dave,

Do you have a photo of the 3172 tag? I've never seen a 150CD that
didn't have a fillister head screw outside of the Volvo Penta marine carbs
with hex heads.


DaveInUtah

Re: Carbs
#27
regnaston Dale Sanger
Belle River, Ontario, Canada   CAN
1965 Triumph Spitfire "Frankenspit"
So I replaced the needle yesterday and it seemed to do the trick. Today I replaced the rubber hoses that connected to the metal ones that went to the Carbs. Started it back up and the car started pouring fuel again . Took it apart and check the function of everything. Everything was operating fine .. But I noticed that the gasket has a triangle bit that did not cover any metal so I trimmed the triangle bit off and it seems to work fine now ..perhaps the floats were getting stuck on the piece sitting out over the bowl

This is a picture of the old one when I replaced it I used the same type even though I thought it was strange it had a piece sticking into the bowl


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Re: Carbs
#28
DerbyRam54 Neville Wardle
Branford, Connecticut, USA   USA
The generic kits sold by most of the parts suppliers contain gaskets for a number of different variations on the carburetter for which they are sold. Float bowls might be slightly different on some versions so you end up with different gaskets that look pretty similar but have the kind of detail difference that you are seeing with that example.

Tabs sticking out like that can interfere with the float or the needle valve, so a spot of trimming might be needed as you discovered.

You need to be careful where an incorrect gasket might block a drilled hole for fuel, air or a vacuum port. That's where apparently identical carbs turn out to be subtly quite different and the wrong gasket can cause a lot of problems. Burlen sells quite specific kits for different versions, other suppliers might offer a more universal kit. Both will work, but you need to inspect things carefully. I wouldn't necessarily assume that what was on the carb was correct either.

Re: Carbs
#29
J.P.Rap Avatar
J.P.Rap J.P. Rap
Mount Hope, Ontario, Canada   CAN
1976 Triumph 1500 "Donna"
2007 Ford Ranger
In reply to # 1496900 by regnaston So I replaced the needle yesterday and it seemed to do the trick. Today I replaced the rubber hoses that connected to the metal ones that went to the Carbs. Started it back up and the car started pouring fuel again . Took it apart and check the function of everything. Everything was operating fine .. But I noticed that the gasket has a triangle bit that did not cover any metal so I trimmed the triangle bit off and it seems to work fine now ..perhaps the floats were getting stuck on the piece sitting out over the bowl

This is a picture of the old one when I replaced it I used the same type even though I thought it was strange it had a piece sticking into the bowl

It sounds like you may have found and fixed the problem but I'm surprised nobody mentioned setting the float. Did you check your float height when you serviced it. I believe the correct height is 17mm from the bowl (no gasket) to the top of the float. That is measured with the carb removed and held upside down. It can be set with the carb in the car but it's finicky work and you have to be quite gentle about holing the float up while measuring.

My carb kit (from Moss) came with a number of different thickness aluminium washers for the float valve. The instructions said the tang on the float should be straight and square to the needle. Gross adjustments are made by changing the washers until the float is as close to the desired height as is possible. Fine adjustments are then made by bending the tang slightly.
HTH
Cheers



"In this world, you must be oh so smart, or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant." Elwood P. Dowd

Re: Carbs
#30
regnaston Dale Sanger
Belle River, Ontario, Canada   CAN
1965 Triumph Spitfire "Frankenspit"
The piston in the left Carb is much farther down than the right side. (probably 1/4" on the left an 3/4" on the right

Mine are the 150 CDSE if I am reading correctly on the web these should not need height adjusting as they self adjust,, I am being steered wrong by the infallible "web" or can I / do I adjust the height of the piston .. if I need to, how do I ?

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