TRExp

TR2 & TR3 Forum

Bump on release bearing sleeve

Moss Motors
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor

Bump on release bearing sleeve
#1
  This topic is about my 1957 Triumph TR3
mcoomey Avatar
mcoomey Silver Member Michael Coomey
Paxton, MA, USA   USA
Is the sleeve for the clutch release bearing supposed to have a bump on it as in the attached photos? At first I thought not, but then I read that later versions had a pin to prevent the sleeve from rotating. The bump on mine does that by getting hung up on the fork.



Michael Coomey
Paxton, MA

'57 TR3



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-07 05:30 PM by mcoomey.

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <

Attachments:
rel_bearing_sleeve_1.jpg    20.8 KB
rel_bearing_sleeve_1.jpg

rel_bearing_sleeve_2.jpg    23 KB
Sign In or Register to view this photo
mgruber921 Avatar
mgruber921 Marvin Gruber
Florence, Alabama, USA   USA
The bump is from wear. Sleeve lip is worn from being cocked on shaft and yoke pin pressing on it. You could pin it and use again for awhile.
Marv

TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
I disagree. That area with the dent is not a wear area, as the fork pins go inside the slot and hence can only rub against it from the inside. That's some sort of physical damage, likely done during a previous installation.

The early sleeves were not pinned, and IMO don't need to be. I'd use it as-is.



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <
mcoomey Avatar
mcoomey Silver Member Michael Coomey
Paxton, MA, USA   USA
Thanks for both views. I agree that the dent must have come from some outside force, but notice also that there is a slight wiggle between the sleeve and shaft of the cover. I can slide a .004 feeler gauge between them, but not an .005. Do you know if this is an acceptable tolerance or is my sleeve too worn?

Also, if I do reuse the sleeve should I file the bump to allow the sleeve to rotate past the fork pins?



Michael Coomey
Paxton, MA

'57 TR3

CJD john durant
Southlake, Texas, USA   USA
I wouldn't file the sleeve. It is only required to slide back and forth, and does not (in fact should not) rotate with the bearing. The dent may be enough to prevent rotation, as an added bonus. Many cars actually put pins in the sleeve to prevent rotation of the carrier.

I've never used a feeler on the carrier. I have never worried much about the bearing carrier wear, as it is bronze and seems to last forever. I HAVE worried about the tranny input sleeve wear, though. If it is worn enough to detect any amount of ridging at all, it will need to be replaced. There must be nothing at all to restrict the easy sliding of the bearing carrier on the tranny sleeve.



John
Southlake, TX

'55 TR2

TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
I think your clearance is fine. Nelson did some checks on TR6 sleeves (TR6 sometimes have trouble with sticky clutch action) and found several good working clutches were in the range .005" to .010", plus an "expert" recommended .015"
http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/clutch/StickyClutch/StickyClutch.htm

I also don't think there is any need to file down the sleeve.



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

mcoomey Avatar
mcoomey Silver Member Michael Coomey
Paxton, MA, USA   USA
Thanks, everyone! So I guess I'm in better shape than I feared. I'll reuse the existing sleeve as is and save the $50 plus lost time waiting for a new one.

This is good news. By the end of the week the engine and tranny should be reunited and back on the chassis for the first time in 35 Years!



Michael Coomey
Paxton, MA

'57 TR3

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <

Attachments:
almost_reunited.jpg    50.2 KB
almost_reunited.jpg

johnstydo Avatar
johnstydo John Styduhar
Hermitage, PA, USA   USA
I've seen several brass TO bearing sleeves that have that dimple on the rim (which I think is factory made) to prevent rotation when engaged in the fork. I personally like to convert an old dimpled brass piece to the pinned version by filing the dimple off smooth and then drilling and installing my own pin to prevent sleeve rotation. I prefer to use brass sleeves that are factory OEM and not the aftermarket junk. You must also look at the wear on the pins in the clutch fork to make sure there is no binding in the sleeve when the fork is actuated.

mcoomey Avatar
mcoomey Silver Member Michael Coomey
Paxton, MA, USA   USA
Thanks for the info, John. That's interesting that you've seen the same thing on other throw-out bearings. I really couldn't see how it could have gotten damaged in that manner. I guess the factory thought it was cheaper to whack it with a punch than to drill and pin it.

Is the concern about it not rotating to reduce wear on the fork pins?



Michael Coomey
Paxton, MA

'57 TR3

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <
CJD john durant
Southlake, Texas, USA   USA
I don’t believe the factory would whack a bronze part. Bronze is brittle, and you stand as much a chance of cracking it as bending it like that. Also, you have a shiney surface in the fork groove that shows your sleeve was spinning...so the bump was not very effective. I don’t think the factory cared whether it turned or not. Once it is under pressure the bearing will do all the turning. The sleeve would only turn very little in comparison.



John
Southlake, TX

'55 TR2



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-10 10:02 PM by CJD.

TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
Right. It will only turn a small amount while the bearing is moving from released to engaged or vice versa; not spin continuously unless the bearing has failed.

The TR6 sleeve is pinned because it's clutch design is intended to have the TOB turning all the time, under very light load. In that case, you could get a situation where the sleeve would turn continuously without the pins.



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

johnstydo Avatar
johnstydo John Styduhar
Hermitage, PA, USA   USA
I checked several on my early TO bearing sleeves which use the flat faced TO bearing. None of them had any pinning or dimple on the sleeve face. So the sleeve was able to rotate on the front bearing retainer. But the later model TR4A-TR6 sleeves that use the rounded face TO bearing did have the dimpled face on the bronze pieces, and pinning on the steel aftermarket one. The dimple impression on the ones that I have is identical to the photos above. So I stand by my opinion that the dimple is factory-made on later TO sleeves.

Jacad Avatar
Jacad Gold Member Barry Shefner
Montreal, QC, Canada   CAN
1959 Triumph TR3A "Loose Wheels"
1976 Triumph TR6 "The Tweetster"
Here's a steel one I had laying around, dimple on the face and showing the anti-rotation pin hole (0.100 OD). No clue as to why the manufacturer would add the dimple as it does not add any interference to opposite side face of the groove (unlike in your photo of a bronze sleeve which has an indentation) in which the fork rides so the dimple would not stop the sleeve from rotating.

As Alice would say "Curiouser and curiouser!"



Barry
59 TR3A 0TS57675LO - "Loose Wheels"
76 TR6 CF54266U - "The Tweetster"
Website: Triumph TR2-TR3-TR4 www.trtriumph.com/ (sorry for not keeping it current for the past couple of years)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-12 09:46 AM by Jacad.


Attachments:
IMG_0568.jpg    27.2 KB
IMG_0568.jpg

IMG_0569.jpg    24.4 KB
Sign In or Register to view this photo
johnstydo Avatar
johnstydo John Styduhar
Hermitage, PA, USA   USA
That certainly doesn't look like the previous example of the dimpled sleeve. Not factory made. More like a chipout.

Jacad Avatar
Jacad Gold Member Barry Shefner
Montreal, QC, Canada   CAN
1959 Triumph TR3A "Loose Wheels"
1976 Triumph TR6 "The Tweetster"
John,

Perhaps it's just coincidental that the sleeve in the pic that I posted has that bump/chip but that sleeve has been in my parts bin for over 10 years and to my knowledge was never used (at least not by myself).C I cannot imagine that it was damaged sitting on a shelf in my garage but I also have no explanation as to why anyone would intentionally put a bump/chip there.



Barry
59 TR3A 0TS57675LO - "Loose Wheels"
76 TR6 CF54266U - "The Tweetster"
Website: Triumph TR2-TR3-TR4 www.trtriumph.com/ (sorry for not keeping it current for the past couple of years)

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <

To add your reply, or post your own questions

Members Sign In   or   Create an Account

Registration is FREE and takes less than a minute!


Having trouble posting or changing forum settings?
Read the Forum Help (FAQ) or contact the webmaster