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TR3 Brake Cable

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ShortBulge Brian LeBlanc
Falls Church, Virginia, USA   USA
thanks..

- looks like seals and bearing

- bearing itself looks ok
- i'm not up to speed on speedi - sleeve; how/what/where/when
- think a machine shop can handle bearing surface?

- trying to look at right side...but screw holding drum on is mangled mess!

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TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
"Speedi-sleeve" is a brand name; effectively the same product is available under many other names (usually less expensive).
Basically, it's just a very thin sleeve of metal that slides over the worn surface, presenting a new surface for the new seal to ride against. It's thin enough that the same size seal can be used. Here's more detailed information (including a listing of sizes)
http://www.industrialbearings.com.au/uploads/catalogs/skfspeedisleeve_1338271826.pdf

For the Ferguson, I bought "Sturdi Sleeves" from Amazon. Too soon to say how well they will hold up, but they appear to be exactly equivalent to the Speedi-Sleeve brand.
https://www.amazon.com/99078-Sturdi-Shaft-Repair-Sleeve/dp/B01FWSN1W8
(not the right size, just an example)

On the brake drum screw, I would attack it with a Dremel (small electric die grinder) and an abrasive cutoff blade. First try cutting a new screwdriver slot and see if you can turn the screw out. If not, cut another slot at right angles to the first one, then use a small chisel and BFH to break the pieces of screw head away. It won't hurt anything if you cut into the drum a little bit, but try not to go too deep. Once the head is broken away, you can remove the drum and take care of the rest of it.
Afterwards, it's up to you if you want to try to get the broken end of the screw out and install a new screw. I did on my TR3A, but I've seen others just leave those screws out with no apparent harm done. The wheel will clamp the drum firmly in place.
If you do put them back, some copper-based anti-seize will ensure they come off easily next time. It's more expensive than other types; but in my experience works a whole lot better, especially on things that get hot.
https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-09128-Copper-Anti-Seize-Lubricant/dp/B000HBM8HU

Any machine shop can install the sleeves, if you don't want to do them yourself. The one thing I would NOT have them do is try to remove the hubs from the shaft! Trying to use an ordinary hub puller or hydraulic press will very likely distort and ruin the hubs, even if they do finally come off. If they have to come off (which is the only way to change the bearing or outer seal) then ship the axles off to someone that has the right tool for the job. I've not heard from Gene in some time, but I believe the contact info at the end of this article is still good
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2H2NJt34OffOTIyYmQ4MzgtNDM0Yy00OTY1LTljNzEtZDMyNjM5OWFkZTQ4



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

CJD john durant
Southlake, Texas, USA   USA
I'm getting the impression that some PO dove into the rear end, but then decided he was over his head. He just slammed the axle together with a couple bolts (not even getting the angle right) and sold the car. Some later PO, not knowing the axle was just together with bailing wire, tried to drive the car like that.

For the amount of effort to get where you are, the bearings are only an extra $70.



John
Southlake, TX

'55 TR2

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Jacad Avatar
Jacad Gold Member Barry Shefner
Montreal, QC, Canada   CAN
1959 Triumph TR3A "Loose Wheels"
1976 Triumph TR6 "The Tweetster"
I'm with Randall on the cause of the seal damage, seems to me that unless the bearing itself blew up and failed which does not look to be the case from the photo, the only way that the seal could have been affected like that is due to the bearing housing coming undone causing the bearing and shaft to shift. I would think that the inside surface of the hub may even show signs of wear from the ordeal.

If it were me, I would rebuild both halfshafts however that involves finding a competent local shop that can remove the hubs without damaging them (or finding a local with a churchill type hub removal tool or reasonable facsimile) as well as a healthy budget for bearings, seals and perhaps speedi sleeving the shaft where the oil seal rides as previously suggested. If the budget does not allow for this and the bearing does not appear to be damaged, you could just extract the snapped screw, change the axle seal and make sure to properly tighten and lock all the 6 bolts in place and say a few prayers so that everything goes well and that in a few weeks/months the larger overhaul won't be necessary.

BTW if you want to price out the bearings and seals they are as follows:
Rear Axle Tapered Bearing - Timken #2585-2523 (bearing - 2585 & housing bore - 2523)
Rear Axle Inner oil seal - Steel Ring with Garter Timken #473210
Rear Axle Outer oil seal - Steel Ring Timken #710058



Barry
59 TR3A 0TS57675LO - "Loose Wheels"
76 TR6 CF54266U - "The Tweetster"
Website: Triumph TR2-TR3-TR4 www.trtriumph.com/ (sorry for not keeping it current for the past couple of years)

ShortBulge Brian LeBlanc
Falls Church, Virginia, USA   USA
- Ha! just wanted to get brakes working!

- I was just getting ready to dolly the car 100 miles! from DC to Woodstock VA

- checking "local" british/triumph restoration for hub ref's

- Speedi-sleave take care of that bearing surface at flange?

CJD john durant
Southlake, Texas, USA   USA
In theory, yes. It will be difficult getting it on that far down the shaft, though. Usually you use a length of pipe, a same size socket, or such to tap the sleeve into place. In the case of an axle, it may take a VERY long pipe to go down the axle length, or maybe a split pipe to work close to the sleeve as it goes on. It will take some ingenuity.

Of course, look at the area where the seals ride, as you may be able to clean it up completely with emery or sand paper.



John
Southlake, TX

'55 TR2

TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
I did this just the other day, on a similar (but larger) axle. Piece of cake! The TR3 axle is tapered (as is my Ferguson), so that the sleeve only fits tightly in the area where the seal rides.

I also needed a tool for driving the bearing and retaining collar into place (that part is different than the TR3), so I bought a 3' section of 2" pipe at the local plumbing supply. The Ferguson seal area is about 2-1/4" diameter, so I used a cast iron coupling and removed the threads from one end (to make it slightly larger than the seal area). All it took was some gentle tapping on the end of the pipe to drive the sleeve into place. Honestly, the hardest part was making sure it didn't go too far! It wasn't more than 6 or 8 light taps before it was where I wanted it.

Sorry I didn't take any photos, it didn't seem memorable enough.



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

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CJD john durant
Southlake, Texas, USA   USA
I've had them go on as easy as pie too. I've also had them crumple at the first tap.



John
Southlake, TX

'55 TR2

TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
I don't quite see how that is possible, unless you were putting it on backwards. The installation flange goes on first, so it pulls the rest of the sleeve into place.

Then you can tear away the flange if needed, but I almost never do.



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

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CJD john durant
Southlake, Texas, USA   USA
That is an improvement in the sleeve design, then, or I was using a knock-off of the real Speedi-sleeve. The last sleeve I used did not have an installation flange. It had to be tapped at the trailing edge rather than the leading edge. Good to hear, as the style I used could be tricky when a snug fit.



John
Southlake, TX

'55 TR2



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-22 08:17 AM by CJD.

ShortBulge Brian LeBlanc
Falls Church, Virginia, USA   USA
...So how / where do you get a speedi sleeve for this?

by size or application ?

Jacad Avatar
Jacad Gold Member Barry Shefner
Montreal, QC, Canada   CAN
1959 Triumph TR3A "Loose Wheels"
1976 Triumph TR6 "The Tweetster"
speedi-sleeve by SKF looks like http://www.skf.com/binary/12-61211/457892.pdf

sizing is as per this list http://www.oit.edu/docs/default-source/facilities-services-documents/speedi-sleeve-size-listing.pdf?sfvrsn=2

kit # 99131 for a 1.312" OD shaft x 0.0.500" width on shaft should be ok if it's the 1.312" I.D. seal inside the axle that you want to repair ....
It was not clear to me which part of the axle you said was gouged if it's the other one then you need a 1.937" Kit like the #99193

Be prepared, they are not cheap

You will need to place the sleeve on the axle directly where the seal will ride. Once on they are very difficult to re position so make sure you don't push it on too far. Normally the kit comes with a cap of a diameter slightly larger than the sleeve so that you can use it to bang the sleeve onto the end of a shaft, however in this case you will need something like a steel tube with a similar interior diameter to push it down the shaft where required. The sleeve has a built in flange on one end which you can hit with the cap (or tube) and that is how it installs. Watch this video for more info

Oh and one more thing, don't break off the flange until you are 100% certain that the sleeve is in the desired position or you will find yourself in the same position as John did as they are very thin and delicate and without the flange you will surely damage the sleeve if you try to move it.



Barry
59 TR3A 0TS57675LO - "Loose Wheels"
76 TR6 CF54266U - "The Tweetster"
Website: Triumph TR2-TR3-TR4 www.trtriumph.com/ (sorry for not keeping it current for the past couple of years)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-22 10:42 AM by Jacad.

ShortBulge Brian LeBlanc
Falls Church, Virginia, USA   USA
...the only scoring on the axle is (in pic) on a "non-cylindrical" area

i dont see how a sleeve would handle that...!

CJD john durant
Southlake, Texas, USA   USA
And that is nowhere near the seal surface. Just clean up the seal surface with 400 grit sandpaper and put it all back together...correctly this time!



John
Southlake, TX

'55 TR2

Jacad Avatar
Jacad Gold Member Barry Shefner
Montreal, QC, Canada   CAN
1959 Triumph TR3A "Loose Wheels"
1976 Triumph TR6 "The Tweetster"
Brian,

If you axle is not gouged or grooved in the areas where the 2 seals ride then you don't need a speedi sleeve. As John said, clean the axle surface where the seals ride and if the bearing isn't damaged then put it back together with a new seal, extract the snapped screw and tighten the 6 bolts to specs and lock the bolts with the tab locks. You have to be clear on what your problem is or you are liable to get the wrong info.

The tightning specs are as per below



Barry
59 TR3A 0TS57675LO - "Loose Wheels"
76 TR6 CF54266U - "The Tweetster"
Website: Triumph TR2-TR3-TR4 www.trtriumph.com/ (sorry for not keeping it current for the past couple of years)


Attachments:
axle.jpg    24.1 KB
axle.jpg

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