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Could this be a commission plate?

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mcoomey Avatar
mcoomey Silver Member Michael Coomey
Paxton, MA, USA   USA
I've been struggling for some time to determine an approximate commission number for my TR3 that is missing the firewall commission plate. When it was purchased several years ago I was told that it was a 1956 and I had not found any evidence to contradict that until discovering this brass plate among some boxes of parts. The stamping on it reads EB16654. If this were a commission number and it did indeed come from my car it would seem to indicate that I actually have a 1957, but a commision number would start with TS and not EB. So, does anybody recognize this as a legitimate Triumph identification plate and if so where does it belong and what does it tell me about my car?

(By the way, my differential is stamped TS22416, the engine is TS16866E, and the gearbox is CT57990 -- but I know that is from a TR4 and is not original to the car.)



Michael Coomey
Paxton, MA

'57 TR3

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Attachments:
mystery_vin_plate.jpg    32.7 KB
mystery_vin_plate.jpg

mcoomey Avatar
mcoomey Silver Member Michael Coomey
Paxton, MA, USA   USA
Just found the answer at this forum post:
http://www.triumphexp.com/phorum/read.php?6,930042



Michael Coomey
Paxton, MA

'57 TR3

TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
Does it have front disc brakes, with no signs of having been converted from drums? If so, it would almost certainly have been sold as a 57 model, even though it might have been completed in late 56. TS13046 was supposedly the first car with front discs, completed in Sept 56.



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

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mcoomey Avatar
mcoomey Silver Member Michael Coomey
Paxton, MA, USA   USA
Thanks for your input, Randall. Yes, it has front disks that seem to be original. Also, it has 10" Girling drums in the back with round flanges on the differential sleeves, but I suppose that could have been swapped out at some point. That puts me somewhere between TS13046 (1st disk brakes) and TS22014 (TR3A.)

I had read elsewhere that commission numbers typically ran a couple hundred behind the engine number because some engines were sold to other manufacturers. If I consider that to be true, then my engine number of TS16866E would indicate a commission number around TS16666 which is close to the newly discovered body number of EB16654. This agrees with your assessment of it most likely being a 1957. This could be trouble if I ever get around to registering it with the DMV since I don't have a title for it and my bill of sale calls it a 1956. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get to it!



Michael Coomey
Paxton, MA

'57 TR3

TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
Seems unlikely they would give you any hassle over that; everyone knows that cars built in the fall are sold as next year's model. My DMV didn't even ask about it with TS13571L, just accepted the year I wrote on the application.

The funny part was that they wouldn't verify the commission/VIN number without the seats installed smiling smiley Said it had to be a "complete" car. It could be "complete" without hood, trunk or doors; but the seats had to be there!



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

GGTR Avatar
GGTR GUIOT Gérard
PARIS, ile de france, France   FRA
Hello Michael, this is the TRIUMPH Body number, you should also have near to it another similar platewith 6 or 7 digits, the MULLINER body number.
See the article I publishedin the vIN identification number, you will find all the information relating the the Triumph TR numbers (VIN, chassis, engine, body, ...)
Best regards
GG

mcoomey Avatar
mcoomey Silver Member Michael Coomey
Paxton, MA, USA   USA
Thank you, GG. I found your article very helpful in trying to establish the commission number of my TR3. Using the data you have collected and my car's body number (EB16654) and engine number (TS16866E) I now know my commission number is between TS16249LO and TS17106. If I interpolate from the data I can further estimate an approximate commission number of TS16619L.

For anyone interest, the article can be found at: http://www.trregisterfrance.com/TR/TR2_Indentification.htm in French, or click here for a Google-translated-to-English version.



Michael Coomey
Paxton, MA

'57 TR3



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-05-01 12:29 PM by mcoomey.

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mcoomey Avatar
mcoomey Silver Member Michael Coomey
Paxton, MA, USA   USA
As stated previously in this thread, I do not know the exact commision number of my TR3 because there is no trace of the firewall commission plate. I was previously happy with an estimate of TS16619L based on the body and engine numbers. I'm getting closer to the point where I'll need to title and register the car and would like to establish a number that I can stamp on a new blank commission plate to make that process easier, but I don't want to use a number that belongs to someone else. Does there exist a world-wide database somewhere of commission numbers currently accounted for?

Also, along these lines, I suppose I could improve my estimate if I used the other known fact that my car was originally BRG in color if there existed a database that listed commission numbers and factory colors. Has anyone ever heard of such information being available?

I know that if I had the commission number I could purchase a British Heritage Build Certificate and get all that good information, but can it work in reverse?



Michael Coomey
Paxton, MA

'57 TR3

6TTR3A Frank Conklin
San Diego,CA, USA   USA
Michael,
Based on all the info you have gathered, I think TS16619 is a pretty good guess.
The 247 difference in Comm.# to engine # is about right. The difference of 46 numbers
from Comm # to EB # is a little close.
It looks like you might have the original engine.
Years ago,(1985) British Heritage would do the trace based on the engine number.
They have changed management several times since then & I doubt they still
do that but it's worth asking.
There is a "world wide data base but the information contained therein has to be
volunteered by the owners, so it's far from complete.
See http://trregistry.com/start/registry/index.htm
Hope this helps
Frank

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ckeithjordan Avatar
ckeithjordan Keith Jordan
Shawnee, KS, USA   USA
As an example, here's the info from the TR Registry for a "nearby" number:

Commission No. TS16498L
Engine No. TS-16827
Body No. 971689
Paint Code Pearl White (019)
Trim Code Black (11)
Top color Black
Year 1957
Manufactured Date (MM-YY) 3-1957
BMIHT Built Date (DD-MM-YY) 7-3-1957

And another:
Commision No. TS16765L
Engine No. TS17102E
Body No. EB 16868
Paint Code Sebring White (29)
Trim Code Matador Red (12)
Top color Black
Year 1957
(No specific build date listed)



Keith

1966 Spitfire 4 Mk.2 (1972-1975)
1962 TR3B TCF1183L (1979-1982)
1957 TR3 TS20447LO (2017-)

charleyf Silver Member Charley Fitch
Redding, CA, USA   USA
1962 Triumph TR4
1963 Triumph TR4 "MR.T"
One scary point in selecting a "random" commission number is--that should you select a number from a car that was stolen and never recovered you could lose your car where it would be given to the owner who lost that car. It would be great to be able to have the number that you select run through a national stolen car database BEFORE you decide to use that number.
Charley

Geo Hahn Avatar
Mt Lemmon, AZ, USA   USA
Among Jaguars the needed info is closely guarded lest someone create a 'bitsa' or 'ringer' - building a car up from parts & salvage and then adding a legitimate commission number.

Possibly our TRs are less vulnerable to this as I do recall that BMIHT would (for an additional fee) do a search and cert using alternate numbers. As I recall (could be wrong) the 'EB' number is not in their records but and engine number certainly would be and should lead to a commission number.

Geo Hahn Avatar
Mt Lemmon, AZ, USA   USA
I see that the BMIHT site offers this:

Quote: Web Research Request (no document issued) -- £6.00

Might be worth finding out what that entails.

6TTR3A Frank Conklin
San Diego,CA, USA   USA
Michael,
Based on Keith Jordan's input and George Hahn's suggestion
I would put the approx Comm number to be TS16534
This based on the spread at that time between engine # and
Comm # Definitely inquire re. a search based on the engine
number alone.
FRank

GGTR Avatar
GGTR GUIOT Gérard
PARIS, ile de france, France   FRA
Michael,
To try to get the commission number starting from the EB number, or mulliner number (6 or 7 digits) or from the engine number is not valid. With an EB number 16654, the only thing you can deduct is that your commission number is ROUGHLY between TS16249 (correspond to EB 16480) and TS17106 (correspond to EB16883). Yes it should be closed to TS16664; but most certainly above. Chassis were delivered by Mulliner by bunches and Triumph was not following exactly the Delivery order. To my knowledge, there is no database with the correspondance EB/TS. See the survey I did on that subject .... forgive my English.
Best regards
GG


Attachments:
IDENTIFICATION_E.pdf    2.26 MB

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