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TDA The Triumph 2000 AKA Renown, Razors Edge

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Colts Neck, New Jersey, USA   USA
Actually titled as a 1950 model, European ( or British) cars are registered the year after they are made unlike America where the cars are titled the year before they are made. Please read my profile for further information about a unique vehicle that founded the later manufacture of all Triumph cars.
My main concern is I want to replace the engine with a model which will hold the authenticity of the car as closely as possible. Any change from the stock motor will detract from its original status but the original is completely underpowered for practical use.
I have considered other 4 cyl Triumph engines, which share the 2088 CC size and apparent exterior appearance but I wonder what changes internally separate the stock TDA engine from later models? Will they bolt up to my trans easily or is this impossible? Could I change out both the engine and trans and have an improvement worth the effort and expense?
Is there a more practical engine to use? Something newer which has parts availability and will fit in what I believe is a small engine compartment is the best idea suggested so far by an experienced engine and wheel man ( wet propeller guy). I would love to see a small block Chevy say 265 to 305 CI in there, but they are heavy.
I have a 350 engine/4sp combo available but that is also heavy.
I wondered about a 3L V6 such as the Astrovan or 4Runner units. The Japanese engines have proven themselves, my 89 Corolla has kept running longer than the Bunny. The 20R is also renowned. pun.
I welcome all suggestions.
Thanks for having me, Dave

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trrdster Avatar
trrdster Wayne Tate
Spencer, NC, USA   USA
Dave, the block is very close to the TR2-3 series but a little bit shorter. The duel carbs from that series will not work, tried it on my first one in England.
The engines main restriction is the little down draft Solex, top speed new was 84 MPH down hill, down wind, as confirmed by Road and Track.
Going to shows has got to be a problem with all the interstate roads, I can go all day at 50 and not over heat at 90 degrees, but 60, not so much.
My wife says it's kind of useless and is a good paper weight. LOL
Living in the land of NASCAR, it's been very tempting to add a modern drivetrain and air along with Mustang brakes. I'm doing a Spit6 right now, so that is taking most of my time.
I do have a TR6 stage 2 engine and transmission that could possibly be a good move.
The rack and pinion steering is easy enough, but what are you thinking on the 455 rear end. The steering column shift and how is the wood under your doors?
I'm thinking of getting a trailer, hate it, but the F150 won't even know it's there and I'll be in the air conditioning along with a happy wife.
Sorry to ramble on, but we are facing a show this weekend and it's going to be near 90, might change my mind. The wife says she will follow in the Jaguar XK8.



Wayne
1970 TR6
2000 Jaguar XK8
1949 Triumph Roadster 2000
1978 Spitfire (rust victim)
1971 GT6 (tarp covered for 12 years, rusted inside out)
1980 Spitfire (getting all the good GT6 parts, all poly suspension and Spax shocks)

Colts Neck, New Jersey, USA   USA
Thank you Wayne for your experience and sharing your thoughts. My wife would prefer I just rebuild the original motor and forget about changing the engine completely. I would agree except the original does lack HP. Even if I did change out the eng/trans, I would still have the steering issue. The column almost runs down the center of the engine compartment.
I have looked at the Toyota motors the most. the 22R series looks like it could fit, and the 2.7 series looks possible also.
Both appear to have intakes on the port side and the exhaust on the Right. If the stock manifold interfered with the steering column, which it will no doubt, I think a different exhaust arrangement could be fabricated. There does not seem to be any steering system that does not use a column unless I figured some type of boat system- which might work if I drove the car on the water.
I have not looked at the bottoms of the door frames now that you mentioned it. As soon as the weather gets a little better I will check it out. I found the images the NJ TA made in '13. They are in a Google file format. I have yet to figure out how to zip or change to Jpeg. I will work on that today. After reviewing the images I am surprised how good the overall car condition is. There is almost no body rot anywhere and the tube frame is in very solid condition.
There is a crossmember 24" fore of the bell housing flange, which could be relocated, maybe. I measure about 36" vertical clearance in the engine compartment, with 8" of clearance over the floor.
Enjoy your week, contact me when you get back from your trip if you like. What is the web address for your club?
Regards, Dave

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trrdster Wayne Tate
Spencer, NC, USA   USA
Dave, you won't find much rust, except on the frame member itself. Mostly on the out riggers on the back. Your car is all aluminum except the front fenders.
You know, I'm just assuming you have a Roadster, but maybe a Renown.
The meeting Saturday is a cars and coffee type thing, covered dish form all. We have had so much rain and it's in a field, So if any more rain comes in the next couple of days, sorry but I'm out. Been to one were we had to push cars out of the field.
Going to look at a trailer tomorrow. If you have lots of shows in a area of say 50 miles not a big thing, but most of ours are 100 miles or more. I prefer cruise ins, lots of those around here and they don't charge you to show off all your hard work. Not kicking 20 or 30 bucks to help a club out, but some have got out of hand.
If I can be of any help, let me know. Oh, the Roadster Club is based in England, but they have a good parts selection and great bunch of people.
Like your wife, I made my Roadster as close to original as possible, not easy or cheap.
When you go into the brakes, many surprises, but all can be had. They have a static system, the shoes almost ride on the drums and the rear hand brake is a trip. A triangle shape pulls out the shoes, very interesting.
Don't put grease in the steering box, 140 gear oil, even if you think it's a grease fitting. You can take the top off and check to see if someone else has filled it with grease.
That's enough for now, take care.



Wayne
1970 TR6
2000 Jaguar XK8
1949 Triumph Roadster 2000
1978 Spitfire (rust victim)
1971 GT6 (tarp covered for 12 years, rusted inside out)
1980 Spitfire (getting all the good GT6 parts, all poly suspension and Spax shocks)

Colts Neck, New Jersey, USA   USA
Hi Wayne,

This is going to sound nuts, but we bought a 2001 S10 chevy pickup today. It had gone off the road and rolled almost all the way over, crushed the roof, blew out the windows and bent the passenger door but mechanically it is in great shape. It is the short bed, std cab, 2.2L engine and 5 sp.stick. Runs fine, one owner, <90K miles. 1 Grand $. 108"wb
The seller is retired law enforcement with his share of project cars. Great guy!

I was (just thinking now) of putting the s10 engine and trans in the 2000. It is not technically a Renown which are prefix TDB not TDA as mine is. Mine has the tube frame of the roadster, but a 108" wheelbase. I believe the roadster is 7'-10" or 94". This model was one year only with total production at 2,000. It is The Razor's edge!

I have also thought that I might be able to use the entire rolling chassis from the S10, frame, brakes,fuel, eng, trans, everything and just switch out the body panels. There could be fit issues so anything I do must be reversible so I can go back to original again.

The original plan A was to rebuild the motor, but even in top shape it is a dog on the road. The car is a true orphan only a mother could love, now it looks like it may end up a bastard as well- one Mom will not ever love.

Tonight I started investigating how I can separate the body from the chassis, at the rear. The boot was a resort for a small tribe of mice who packed, I guess the seat stuffing in a big ball in the boot. I am wondering how to remove the boot door, but I probably do not have to. The fuel tank should stay with the frame. The whole affair is on the trailer, so my plan is raise the car about 16 ", remove all the mounting screws, support the body well, remove rear tires, and pull the trailer and chassis out leaving the shell hanging. I then can bring in a different trailer for the body which ( minus wings and grill) should weigh only about 500 -800#.

After some careful measurements, and a few Hail Mary's, I will bring in the s10 chassis for a dry fit to see what it look like. One huge issue is the front of the s10 frame is low to accommodate the floor inside the cab. The rear of the frame is 10.4 " higher to allow for the truck bed. This could be an issue but without seeing it up close I can not fully comprehend it completely.

I will carefully save all the frame parts, hardware, box up the motor and trans and put everything into storage. It would be nice if it were the roadster. My Triumph shop manual sec J, Frame, has several details for different frames. Scale drawings but only one illustrates the roadster frame at 94"WB, and the 108" WB drawing is the 20st chassis which is the pressed steel frame, not tube type.

I may end up with a whole bag of great parts. My cousin purchased quite a few spares during his career. While I was down under I got a look at those shock absorbers. They are a trip as is everything in the car. If this idea works, Mom and me is coming down to chew up some crawfish your way. My mom's family was from Shelby, NC and Braselton, GA. My wife's best bud is a photographer in Asheville, right next to Heaven.
Hope it stays dry. I always recommend Rud tire chains. go on/off easy. not to expensive. Rud.com More later all.


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trrdster Avatar
trrdster Wayne Tate
Spencer, NC, USA   USA
Dave, some times your plans are made for you. That running gear from the S10 should get you everything you need in the rolling part of this project.
Now for all the material needed to make the frame right and drop it enough to make the car sit right, a major project.
How good are you at welding, might need lots of 1/8 inch steel plate cut into the shape you need.
I think a plasma cutter will be your best friend. Oh, a stick welder might be better than a mig in this case, a little deeper penetration.
Wish I were closer, just to watch if you didn't want me in your way.
Keep in touch, and PM me a phone number if you like.



Wayne
1970 TR6
2000 Jaguar XK8
1949 Triumph Roadster 2000
1978 Spitfire (rust victim)
1971 GT6 (tarp covered for 12 years, rusted inside out)
1980 Spitfire (getting all the good GT6 parts, all poly suspension and Spax shocks)

Colts Neck, New Jersey, USA   USA
Hi Wayne,
I weld a lot w/ my little buzz box Lincoln. I enjoy a challenge and designing solutions to problems no one ever had before me. I fabricate many things. Welding is a creative tool. I never learned tig or mig, tried it some and used a plasma cutter, but using a guide I can torch cut very close and finish w/ the grinder. If I am concerned about the heat i will cut w the grinder alone, take my time, and things usually come out OK. I fabricate a lot of drilling tools as well drilling and technical (environmental mostly) are my main professions. I am a Master driller in NJ since 1969. Hooking up the welder was probably one of the best thing I ever did. My shop is a 40' shipping container fitted out w/ drill presses and a lot of storage. We are hoarders and I save as much good stuff as I can, but space is becoming expensive.
Today Lloyd delivered the S10. He feels the Triumph is in such good shape it would be unwise to alter it. The s10 is in such good shape he and I both feel just a few bucks and some work it would be right back on the road. The only serious issue is the cab, and the only thing really damaged is the top which can be cut off and replaced. Everything below is OK. The doors are tweaked so they need replacement as well, but my goal is getting the Triumph going one way or the other
I have a good cab available for $100! and the kid paints too, so it could be a win, win situation.

The thing that jumps out at me about swapping chassiss is the cab on the s10 comes down to within 1 foot of the front wheel. Given that restriction I kind of wonder where the motor will be. On the s10 chassis the motor straddles the front crossmember, and that does not leave much room for the radiator and trim on the Triumph body design. That's why I am taking a long hard look at this before I cut anything that can not be saved. I am positive about removing the body, just to clean and see the frame and components. The only rust found so far is in the area below the boot door which has some bad spots. The door removal was the 2 big bolts which act as piviots. The rrim also was interfering and had to be removed. The boot door must weigh almost 100 pounds, especially with a tire in it, maybe 150#. The older rugs and padding are nasty and need replacing. The simulated black upholstery Harris was never happy with and said he should have gotten leather instead.

I did get out all the mounting screws and am now looking at the steering column, brake cylinder and wiring for removal. I am saving everything. I did have to cut away a few of the screws because I believe that when the car was built, the body was put on the frame before the engine was installed. Access to these screws is all but impossible with the engine in the car.
You asked about under the doors. The doors themself are fine, all steel structurally. The sills under the doors I replaced a few years ago with oak, not ash. I may have used a red oak or black oak which I have a lot of I milled myself about 10 years ago, but I should have used white oak. It is different than its cousins being much stronger and decay resistant. If I ever do it over again.

How did the meet go? A lot of rain here last night. moe coming over the next few days. Good for the trees and crops.
Thank you for your help. jim on non-Triumph forum has been trying to teach me how to post my Google Chrome files of my Triumph. He has a lot of patients. I am an idiot when it comes to digital anything.
Enjoy Wayne, Best to all, dave

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Colts Neck, New Jersey, USA   USA
732 546 0241 Wayne. Anytime. If i do not answer leave a brief message. I get a ton of crap calls every day so I do not respond to those I do not know. Thanks

Colts Neck, New Jersey, USA   USA
Update 5/25/17
Yesterday finally figured out how to remove the dash from the S10. I am trying to remove the complete wiring harness. At every connection GM uses the most insidious 'trigger" connections which sometimes are easy and at other times nearly impossible to figure out. It seems the wiring must go back into the cab from the engine compartment. Most of the front wiring was out already removing the fenders and radiator support.
Stripped the donner cab as well. leared how the air box is assembled inside and out. It is in rougher condition and needs cleaning up on the floors before I swap out the interiors. The donner was plain jane and the rollover was more delux.
Once I get the rollover cab off I intend to start engineering what might be required to set a similar engine/trans on the TDA.
The nature of the assemblies is a lot different than back in the old days. GM uses mostly small 7mm screws and 10mm bolts for most applications. Quite a few indeed. The unit that holds the pedals is the same in the auto version as the stick except the stick has the clutch pedal and pivot installed. I need to make a hole for the slave cylinder, a small square hole the slave slips in and then is rotated 90 degrees to lock it in.
Rain day today in the NE. I am exhausted. Hopefully we will start putting it back together over the weekend.
Later All, thanks for following.

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Colts Neck, New Jersey, USA   USA
5/26, 5:30PM day done. clear some clouds, threatened but no rain. Started on finishing clean out on donor cab. Foors poor, some clear thru here and there. 100% difference that the rollover cab floor. It is so nice I will save it. Fig the cab is shot, so there is little I can do to actually hurt it. In the back of my crawl space ( my head) I have had brief visions of a very small firewall, about 3 ft wide tucked into the TDA front end. Nothing permanent and with no mods to the TDA. It must remain whole and carry the numbers TDA 1893 DL.

The floor is also salvageable, and can be modified to fit the exact Saloon footprint as far back as about 40" I would guess. Anchors for belts, seats, and by the way, does anyone out there have airbags installed? These units start on the center of the floor pan, under the rugs, a big sensor is bolted down. I am personally afraid of the things. Prob. will save my life one day, this is a big driving weekend.
Anyway, I can use the S10 steer column, brake booster is optional, very small slave cylinder / clutch install. the gas is easy to move around.

Anyway, long story short, the rollover cab is off. The donor is fiber glassed on the floors, one coat. 2 on driver side. All wires from front came into the cab and were removed w/ airbag sensor. One more coat on pass side tomorrow. Cab lifted off easily. I have an A frame on my trailer that allows me to pick up some big stuff sometimes. The old hand winch came from a truck a great oldtimer made on a 63 dodge D500. The winch was used to lift the main boom. It was a pump hoist ( we's all well drillers). It will hand crank a 1000 pounds with 2 lines. I have had 5 lines on it. It is dangerous. But lifted the rolled cab easily. Lifting the donor cab will be trickier. No mistakes. May need some help. MA!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-05-26 04:43 PM by triumphTDA1949.

Colts Neck, New Jersey, USA   USA
Also update 5/26 711 pm
The hole for the clutch cyl is already there waiting for someone who needs it. Just need to drill out the front steel sheet. The square is on the inside sheet in correct position already. Thought of several ways to open the hole but the hole saw with about a 1-1/2 to 1-3/4 bit will do the job quickly.
I am spending a lot of time on this project. I need it finished because we have a large summer schedule. In the mean time, I don't work, and it helps occupy my time.

I am also a writer of sorts. History stuff. My period is 1900 to 1920. NJ mostly, but have come to learn about Harry W. Shoemaker and his buddies from PA. Quite a story in itself. I have been working on it for over 20 years with the major portion of the work over the last two years.
It involves images, a lot of images. Many never seen by our generations, and few if at all during the period they were made, above.
Also started new work about the Morris canal, which has been done to death, but these ( 1 thou.) images capture the canal as it was being put to rest. Closing. Truly, forgetaboutit. What a story. Needs 2 more years.

To all, be careful, considerate, and happy. The most important holiday of the year. Think about those that paid the small price of Honor. Their lives.
Rest All,

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