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darrellwalker Darrell Walker
Vancouver, Washington, USA   USA
1966 Triumph TR4A "Christy"
1981 Triumph TR8 "Kate"
This is the second or third replacement water pump I've had on my car, the brand is "Power Tune". They all start leaking from the weep hole fairly quickly. Did I just happen to get a few bad ones, or do they all do this? What other options are there? The reason it looks so gross is that I had some dye in the system to look for another leak. It isn't rusty. What is worse is that it drips onto the fan belt and crank pulley, and flings coolant all around the engine bay.



Darrell Walker
66 TR4A IRS-SC CTC67956L
81 TR8 SATPZ458XBA406206
Vancouver, WA, USA

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Bergie Bob Berg
Powell, Ohio, USA   USA
Hi Darrell....I just finished tackling this same water pump replacement project as my pump was weeping and squealing ......yes there are choices and I wanted the best cooling option for the car given the historical issues with the rover v8 engine block and overheating-my car had no issues previously ......see first picture our options for replacement-top row left to right ...original one I just took off the car and new TR8 bolt on power tune pump($160).....bottom row left to right ...TA performance 1536AHP hi flow/hi volume pump($195)...FlowKooler 1526 pump($125)...GMB hi performance pump 130-1070P ($40).....bottom row are all buick pumps(4 hole pulley mount-v8 350 '64-71 or 231cu v6 engine) ...the flowkooler pump is basically a GMB pump body with their proprietary impeller design-same body casting made in japan........the TA Performance pump is an all new design and the cavities are deeper than any of the other pumps and the vane design is curved and covered which looks best to prevent cavitation and have higher pressure by design-its the highest quality piece when you line them all up.....I had a adapter made to accept the Wedge shop(see pics) aluminum 3 hole pulley so I can use the buick pump....I ended going with the TA pump because you cant go wrong with higher flow and pressure...I do have a high flow 180 degree thermostat which is what you need to run with the hi flow/pressure pumps.....also changing to evans coolant which is a separate process itself...ran the car last Sunday with the TA pump and it is running cooler at speed/highway just below the 1/4 mark(slightly below previous reading) and idling it takes much longer to turn the fans on than before...instead of the adapter I had made you could try and pull the pulley assemblies off the powertune (TR8)-3 hole unit and try and swap onto the buick TA pump-don't know if the shafts are the same or if there is room to get it at right offset.....just need to align it from the mounting base where gasket sits to 4 1/8 inches center of pulley for the v belt to align with crank/alternator....also with the TA pump the mounting bolts (5/16-18 & 1/4-20) are shorter by up to a 1/2 inch so you need to assess them before you mount .....I switched all bolts to grade 8 and used anti seize paste......I did have one rusty bolt that gave me some trouble getting out (in your pic far left) and its one that goes into the block so a long one 5 inch...had to pull outward with pliers while unscrewing to get it out...cleaned up the hole with PB blaster and vacuumed it all out....also ran a 5/16-18 plug tap thru the holes to clean out any gasket sealer/material so good clean holes to start with...... ..I also run a high flow 180 deg thermostat with coolant by pass holes to accommodate the higher pressure & flow with the pump...also running evans coolant now switching from the audi G13 pink coolant.........

thermostat:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/emp-301/overview/

TA Pump..if you call them talk to Tim....
http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA%5F1536AHP


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Bergie Bob Berg
Powell, Ohio, USA   USA
one more

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darrellwalker Darrell Walker
Vancouver, Washington, USA   USA
1966 Triumph TR4A "Christy"
1981 Triumph TR8 "Kate"
Hi Bob,

Thanks for the info. The TA pump looks interesting. I'll have to look at the pictures, but I'm not sure the Powertune hub would work, to looks like the shaft is shorter.

I switched to studs on the long bolts, and they seem to have worked well, no problem getting the pump off. I know what you mean about having to turn and pull some of those long ones the entire length!

The Powertune pump, besides the leak, also makes a groaning noise now when turning slowing. Like rubber sliding over the shaft.

I'm waiting to hear back from a place in Southern Oregon that rebuilds pumps, I might go that route and have my original pump rebuilt. I pulled it out, and other than looking old, it sounds and feels better than the Powertune does. I don't even remember why I replaced it in the first place, maybe just thinking after 30 years it was time!

-Darrell



Darrell Walker
66 TR4A IRS-SC CTC67956L
81 TR8 SATPZ458XBA406206
Vancouver, WA, USA

darrellwalker Darrell Walker
Vancouver, Washington, USA   USA
1966 Triumph TR4A "Christy"
1981 Triumph TR8 "Kate"
These guys quoted me $125 to rebuild, I think I'll send my original pump to them:

http://water-pump-rebuilders.com

I'll let you know how it comes out.



Darrell Walker
66 TR4A IRS-SC CTC67956L
81 TR8 SATPZ458XBA406206
Vancouver, WA, USA

Bergie Bob Berg
Powell, Ohio, USA   USA
Ok great...keep us posted...TA performance also has a longer nose pump 1536BHP that is a better starting point if your replacing hubs....see page 115 for dimensions.....very close if you mount on hub...could weld on steel hub additional material in middle and re drill 4 holes to match Buick...

darrellwalker Darrell Walker
Vancouver, Washington, USA   USA
1966 Triumph TR4A "Christy"
1981 Triumph TR8 "Kate"
In reply to # 1492614 by Bergie Ok great...keep us posted...TA performance also has a longer nose pump 1536BHP that is a better starting point if your replacing hubs....see page 115 for dimensions.....very close if you mount on hub...could weld on steel hub additional material in middle and re drill 4 holes to match Buick...

Wow, they have some seriously inexpensive water pumps. Also an electric one that looks like it would bolt right up (not inexpensive, however!).

Is there any advantage (or disadvantage) of using the high flow thermostat with a stock water pump?

I also saw this water outlet on in the TA Performance catalog. I have the Edelbrock Peformer manifold. It has the bypass hole plugged, and the connection on the front cover capped, which is what I hear most folks do. It looks like this outlet would let me reconnect that. Am I right that the bypass just keeps coolant circulating in the head and block, even when the thermostat is closed? Does it really matter having it connected or not? Looking at this outlet, however, it looks like it would point up, rather than to the right side like my current one, which might be a problem.



Darrell Walker
66 TR4A IRS-SC CTC67956L
81 TR8 SATPZ458XBA406206
Vancouver, WA, USA

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Bergie Bob Berg
Powell, Ohio, USA   USA
Hi Darrell...my brain dump for what its worth.....the high flow/pressure water pumps are designed to move more coolant in high horsepower engines which generate a lot more heat and with the higher flow you don't want a restriction with the thermostat so they have the hi flow mechanical thermostats that move more coolant(wider opening than stock ones) to match the pump keeping the engine temps normal....see no downside using hi flow tstat with stock water pump even with the bypass holes and that is what I have been using with the stock TR8 Leyland/powertune water pump previously...with the bypass holes you clear the air pockets quicker and keep them from collecting and air pockets out help with the temp gauge in the manifold not reading air vs coolant for correct readings.....also I used to have the edelbrock intake manifold on my engine and I did use the bypass hole in the thermostat housing as in your picture running it back to waterpump inlet that faces toward the back of the pump-it is a smaller restriction cavity so its restricted in flow a bit...I thought this helped the coolant flow to heat up quicker overall in the system(instead of waiting for the thermostat to open)so your in car heater got you heat quicker on cold days(need to fact check me on this!)...bypass is a good idea because it does keep coolant flow moving all the time and keep temps down....with my wildcat intake I run a 5/8 tee fitting out the back of intake and run a hose back to the water pump fitting to keep the same flow for bypass (don't have provision in thermostat housing) .......there is a matching thermostat housing for the edelbrock 2198 intake with the bypass provision as in your pic available keeping stock water plumbing so not sure if you have that one and have a cap or a water housing without a provision...the TA 1535 looks like the one on my old intake and what I used for the coolant bypass-call them and see if it would fit the buick 215....I assume it is still available for sale....

see housing from rpi...scroll down...
http://www.v8engines.com/faq-carb.htm

darrellwalker Darrell Walker
Vancouver, Washington, USA   USA
1966 Triumph TR4A "Christy"
1981 Triumph TR8 "Kate"
Do carb TR8s have a different outlet than FI cars? My car was originally FI (well, it is again now, too), and I used the original outlet on the new manifold. The outlet goes to the right, with no upward lift. The Buick one appears (and the RPI picture confirms) that the outlet with that part would go up, and pretty much straight ahead.



Darrell Walker
66 TR4A IRS-SC CTC67956L
81 TR8 SATPZ458XBA406206
Vancouver, WA, USA

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Bergie Bob Berg
Powell, Ohio, USA   USA
I know the carbed TR8( and EFI intake manifolds from picture I have seen) didn't have a provision on the thermostat housing and had a separate aluminum pipe that ran attached underneath the intake....the water pump hole and pipe were not perfectly aligned from memory and the rubber coolant hose has a slight jog in it...either way with a thermostat housing that has the provision in the edelbrock 2198 you may not have a straight shot to the back water pump provision so you can use a standard 5/8 inch heater hose, cut to fit then add a stainless steel spring inside(cutting to length) to work any "S" bend you need to connect the two...see pic on what I would do...you can get a pretty deep s bend with this method.....see link below for spring I use on heater hose for these type funky bends...have the hose length long enough to slip on so the hose is squeezed on the fittings with smallest bends... maybe try local hardware store for a compression spring with Outside Diameter less than <.600 inches- thin spring ...need stainless spring especially if using standard antifreeze/ water mix...


jones stainless steel compression spring #725
https://www.springsfast.com/part_detail_compression.php?part=725

may also work as hose support (10AN is close to 5/8 hose)
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-773410erl


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darrellwalker Darrell Walker
Vancouver, Washington, USA   USA
1966 Triumph TR4A "Christy"
1981 Triumph TR8 "Kate"
In reply to # 1492735 by Bergie I know the carbed TR8( and EFI intake manifolds from picture I have seen) didn't have a provision on the thermostat housing and had a separate aluminum pipe that ran attached underneath the intake

Hi Bob,

The pipe underneath the FI manifold is for the heater, one connection is from the back of the intake, the other is the pipe underneath which connects to the more or less vertical connection on the water pump outlet. Most folks with the Edelbrock intake, if they are running the heater, will just run a hose from the firewall connection to the water pump. I actually made up a pipe to run under the intake to maintain the stock path (and not have an extra hose laying on top of the intake).

The connection from the spot on the back of front cover, on the stock EFI manifold, went to a barb someplace low on the front of the intake.

TA Performance has an offset hose in the catalog that looks like it might work. I'm not concerned with that part, but with the main output. I don't think my current (stock) top hose would work with the outlet that has the extra nipple. And it kind of needs that bend to get around the distributor.

-Darrell



Darrell Walker
66 TR4A IRS-SC CTC67956L
81 TR8 SATPZ458XBA406206
Vancouver, WA, USA

Bergie Bob Berg
Powell, Ohio, USA   USA
had to pull my old intake manifold to verify and there were two pipes under the intake ...one was the coolant bypass hose that went to back of waterpump-see picture and casted integral part of the intake-bypass provision..there was a second aluminum 5/8 pipe that ran under the intake that connected the other water pump fitting to the heater return hose from the firewall....cant find that old pipe to share but it bolted to the bottom of the manifold...


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Bergie Bob Berg
Powell, Ohio, USA   USA
for the top water pump hose fitting I use a gates 90 degree 5/8 inch heater hose 5 ft long running along frame rail from firewall to pump...helps with routing these hoses back to pump......either way works...


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darrellwalker Darrell Walker
Vancouver, Washington, USA   USA
1966 Triumph TR4A "Christy"
1981 Triumph TR8 "Kate"
Got my original water pump back from getting rebuilt. It looks pretty good. We'll see how it holds up. $125 plus $12 shipping (plus my shipping to them). Turn around (including shipping time) was just over a week.



Darrell Walker
66 TR4A IRS-SC CTC67956L
81 TR8 SATPZ458XBA406206
Vancouver, WA, USA


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Darth V8R Avatar
Darth V8R Vance Navarrette
Beaverton, Oregon, USA   USA
1980 Triumph TR8 "Wedgie"
In reply to # 1492526 by darrellwalker This is the second or third replacement water pump I've had on my car, the brand is "Power Tune". They all start leaking from the weep hole fairly quickly. Did I just happen to get a few bad ones, or do they all do this? What other options are there? The reason it looks so gross is that I had some dye in the system to look for another leak. It isn't rusty. What is worse is that it drips onto the fan belt and crank pulley, and flings coolant all around the engine bay.

You know, it occurs to me... The reason water pumps wear out is because the tension in the belt puts a side load on the bearings, and that accelerates wear. The bearing wears out and starts leaking.

I noticed you have a custom water pump pulley. Are you using something exotic to set the belt tension like a turnbuckle or some other after market tensioner? If there is too much tension in the belt, the pump will wear out sooner. You want a small amount of slack in the belt, perhaps 1/2" if you push down firmly with your thumb.

Just a random thought...

Vance



1980 Platinum Metallic TR8, navy blue interior
Bare metal respray, Crower cam, raised compression
ported heads, modified Zenith carbs, 0.060" overbore

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