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Car won't start

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Car won't start
#1
  This topic is about my 1980 Triumph TR7
Lagodude Avatar
Lagodude Garry Bayer
Lago Vista, Texas, USA   USA
Battery is new and full charged. Cranks great.

The leads to the distributor have been replaced.

Have no spark at plugs and no spark from the coil assembly.

I do have a short in the system somewhere, the battery has a slow drain.

When I remove the battery cable and touch it back to battery terminal I hear a click from the fuse panel area, think it's the blue relay (picture attached).

She ran (rough) about a month ago. Been gone for a month and now she won't start at all

Anybody have any idea where I should start.

Appreciate any guidance.

Thanks,

GarryB

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mcmahontr7 Chris McMahon
Fort Worth, Texas, USA   USA
Garry,

I see by the VIN# that it's fuel injected like mine. There are several components in the system. There is a fuel injection relay directly behind the fuses there. You need to see if the fuel pump is energizing also. Make sure your grounds are all good. The blue one is the starter relay. So that's good. I'm thinking you should start with the coil and ignition assemblies.
Is it still fuel injected? Have you ever heard of an off key drain of the battery? It's a test on the battery to basically see if the battery is draining with the key off. Kind of like if the trunk light is still on when the trunk is shut.
I'm gonna go check the book.

Chris

Lagodude Avatar
Lagodude Garry Bayer
Lago Vista, Texas, USA   USA
Hi Chris,

Yes. It is a fuel injection and would like to keep it that way.

Fuel pump working fine, replaced it when I got the car a year ago. Plenty of fuel to the chamber.

Was running a month ago, not good but running.

I've tested all grounds that I can find.

The battery does drain with key off. I've tried to find anything that is on with key off. I've even tried disconnecting things to see if that item might be the cause. Haven't found anything yet.

Yes, I think it may be the coil assembly. Can't seem to find the whole assembly anywhere so I will order the Internal Module from Moss tomorrow.

Thank you for the advise. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Talk soon I hope,

GarryB

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POW Peter Wirth
HEBRON, NH - New Hampshire, USA   USA
In reply to # 1489249 by Lagodude

When I remove the battery cable and touch it back to battery terminal I hear a click from the fuse panel area, think it's the blue relay (picture attached).



It can't be the blue relay clicking (starter relay) when you touch the battery cable back because that would immediately energize the starter solenoid and the engine would crank even with the key in your pocket.

Lagodude Avatar
Lagodude Garry Bayer
Lago Vista, Texas, USA   USA
Hey Peter,

Thanks.

That makes sense.

It must be the Black Relay (next to blue) that is clicking. I know it's not the silver one.

Still not sure what is draining battery. There must be a short somewhere.

I'll keep looking.

Appreciate the help,

GarryB

nick Avatar
nick nick m
Bend, OR, USA   USA
On my car the other two relays are horn and headlight. On the other side you have the other headlight. My car is not FI.



nick

lgray001 Avatar
lgray001 Gold Member Larry Gray
Lexington, VA, USA   USA
1976 Triumph TR7 "POS-2"
1979 Triumph TR7 "The Money Pit"
One slow drain that is always on is the clock.


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POW Peter Wirth
HEBRON, NH - New Hampshire, USA   USA
Garry
I think if you could put your finger in turn on each relay while a mate touched the battery cable to it's post you be able to feel the 'click'. Have you by chance noticed or checked to see if one of the headlights could be on though still parked? Would be all but impossible to see in daylight. - Pete

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Lagodude Avatar
Lagodude Garry Bayer
Lago Vista, Texas, USA   USA
The drain is over night.

Don't think it's the clock.

The headlights are not on but one of them are stuck and has to be raised by turning knob.

Chris suggested a "off key drain of the battery".

I look online and found article.

Will try that tomorrow.

Working on the starting issue today.

Took off the Coil Assembly. Got juice to the ass'y. but none out. No fire from the from coil to distributor and no juice out at the module.

Any ideas?

Should I try to replace the Internal Module?

I think I can get one from Moss.

Appreciate any help.

Thanks guys,

GarryB


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mcmahontr7 Chris McMahon
Fort Worth, Texas, USA   USA
Garry,

About the battery drain. Charge the battery. Check to see if the light switch in the trunk back on the left hinge is working by pressing it. You can eliminate the idea of the headlights and their relays and switch by disconnecting the fuse that runs that system. Also check the cigarette lighter to see if it's staying on and hot. Then check the battery the next day.
About the spark. If you have the money, invest in a new ignition module and coil. I have a high performance system by crane cams. The pics you added look like they might need an upgrade. You can test the coil the same way you test for off key drain but putting the test light bulb on the neg side of the coil and ground the other wire. A good coil will flash the bulb. I don't know, I have hade my coil go out in mine while driving out of town. It might be an easy fix just to replace the coil with a cheap one. Although there is a fuel injection relay behind the fuses, I don't think it's that. The blue one in your pic is the A/C relay I believe. So, push the A/C button "in" the one next to the dimmer and cigarette lighter. Pull that fuse also.
Your headlight. The 2 relays are the ones next to the fuses. They are on the bottom left and right side. If those relays aren't the problem, then it can be a bad, corroded, or damaged connector right behind each headlight in the engine compartment. The right will be under the air filter box. Finally, the headlight switch on the dash is crap. I've rebuilt mine several times. The copper connectors and springs inside the switch get too hot and melt the plastic little nipples and cause it to fail. I have fabricated mine with material that won't melt. If they ever do fail again I will just buy a new one.
Oh, my red repair manual is published by BL Cars Limited part # AKM3079B
I checked the ones on eBay and they have the same part #, just different publishers.

Good luck,

Chris

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POW Peter Wirth
HEBRON, NH - New Hampshire, USA   USA
The accessories that are 'hot' independent of the ignition off are the clock, the two courtesy lights in the doors, the light in the boot, the horn, head lamps and running lights, the cigar lighter, and the buzzer thingy pictured in your photo of the relays & fuse box. That's the on the left with the little grill on it. I don't know if that thing can stick or click or not but I'd check it out with the finger test or unplug it to see if the click stops when touching the bat cable to post. I'd also take a close look at the relay responsible for the stuck headlight. Pete

Rburgess Avatar
Rburgess Randy Burgess
Fresno, CA, USA   USA
I watched a trick on TV once to help locate a battery drain, seemed to be a good idea but never tried it.

First, remove the POSITIVE battery cable (leaving the ground cable connected) and install a test light between the positive cable and positive post on the battery. If the drain is significant enough, the test light will light up. Then remove the fuses one at a time until the test light goes out. Once it does, you have at least limited to the circuit that the short is in. Might be worth a try.

Good luck, Randy

POW Peter Wirth
HEBRON, NH - New Hampshire, USA   USA
In reply to # 1489664 by mcmahontr7 Garry,

t. The blue one in your pic is the A/C relay I believe. So, push the A/C button "in" the one next to the dimmer and cigarette lighter. Pull that fuse also.


Good luck,

Chris

The blue relay is definitely the starter relay. On the, on a TR8 anyway, all the AC relays are in the engine bay, in front of the left wheel arch. I'm guessing the 7 is the same. Pulling fuses in turn is a good idea. You could also easily disconnect the ignition switch harness to eliminate a problem switch. See if there is still a drain. The connection is under the dash about a foot down the steering column, easy to access. Pete

Lagodude Avatar
Lagodude Garry Bayer
Lago Vista, Texas, USA   USA
Hey guys,

Think I found the short.

Used a few different suggested methods to nail down.

When I totally remove the left side headlamp relay I have no (minimal) discharge on battery. Most likely only clock is using power.

The left headlamp and motor were working at one time. Another project for later. Just leaving disconnected for now.

Ordered a new Internal Module for the Coil Assembly. Should be in tomorrow. Hope that will give me spark to the distributor.

Thank all of you that have helped thus far, I really appreciate you all.

You guys are great,

GarryB

Lagodude Avatar
Lagodude Garry Bayer
Lago Vista, Texas, USA   USA
Hi Guys,

OK. Received the new Internal Module on Friday and installed it. Car started right up and ran pretty good for a while. Drove it around the block.

Saturday, she wouldn't start again. Same thing "No Spark".

I purchased an aftermarket module on Ebay.

#D1906B HEI Performance Ignition Module 4-Pin GM Cars '74-'88 and Aftermarket

Could that have burn out already or could it not be the correct one?

Appreciate any comments or suggestion.

Thanks,

GarryB


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#D1906B HEI Performance Ignition Module 4-Pin GM Cars '74-'88 and Aftermarket.jpg

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