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Release Bearing Sleeve Too Tight

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dicta dick Taylor
Downey, Callifornia, USA   USA
Kai --- The oversized sleeve I.D. you referred to may have been the product of TRF. At one time, Dave H. and I discussed the "sticky clutch" syndrome and he thought it was because of a lack of clearance between the sleeve and front cover. I never agreed with this theory, and later brought out in Nelson Riedel's writeup about this problem.
My apologies to TRF if these carrier sleeves were not of their manufacturing. I happen to like most everything they sell.

Dick

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dicta dick Taylor
Downey, Callifornia, USA   USA
Kelvin --- You mentioned using a more precise inside micrometer for this measurement. While I don't believe it's that necessary in the fitting of these parts, I did pull them out and used both a bore gauge and a one - two inch mic. The results were only different by .0005. Back to an earlier post, it would seem that whoever took the front cover measurement took it down where the part was worn. No other plausible explanation, short of incompetency.
Out...

Dick


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j007 Avatar
j007 Joseph M
Madison, OH, USA   USA
FYI, I have my gearbox out, just measured my front collar and O.D. is 1.685, how much clearance should there between front collar and sleeve?



Joe
73 Triumph TR6

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dicta dick Taylor
Downey, Callifornia, USA   USA
In reply to # 1511411 by j007 FYI, I have my gearbox out, just measured my front collar and O.D. is 1.685, how much clearance should there between front collar and sleeve?

.005 seems to be the ideal. This keeps the nose of the bearing centered on the clutch diaphragm fingers, reducing the hunting for concentricity. Too much clearance gives the sleeve a chance to cock during the disengagement, and more importantly the clutch engagement movement. Another reason to be sure to use the two .375 dowel pins.

Dick

j007 Avatar
j007 Joseph M
Madison, OH, USA   USA
Dick, thanks for the info.



Joe
73 Triumph TR6

Zip960 Avatar
Zip960 Zip S
Panhandle, FL, USA   USA
When I buy a part that doesn’t perform, I EXPECT the seller to give top priority to resolve my issue. I don’t care if it is a five cent part or five hundred dollar part. Further I expect seller to pay return shipping and issue credit immediately.
Based on this thread, if I was owner/ceo, I would be VERY concerned.
Most places have quality control incoming inspections that should catch these type of issues before the parts are released for sale.
If you sell good parts, you may NOT have that many phone calls to answer.
A good ROOT CAUSE analysis would be helpful.
Finally, I believe in the adage that if you don’t take care of your customers, someone else will.

Triumphgt6er Avatar
Triumphgt6er Jim Snell
Cave Creek, AZ, USA   USA
1974 Triumph TR6 "Bubbles"
In reply to # 1511552 by Zip960 When I buy a part that doesn’t perform, I EXPECT the seller to give top priority to resolve my issue. I don’t care if it is a five cent part or five hundred dollar part. Further I expect seller to pay return shipping and issue credit immediately.
Based on this thread, if I was owner/ceo, I would be VERY concerned.
Most places have quality control incoming inspections that should catch these type of issues before the parts are released for sale.
If you sell good parts, you may NOT have that many phone calls to answer.
A good ROOT CAUSE analysis would be helpful.
Finally, I believe in the adage that if you don’t take care of your customers, someone else will.

As the guy who started this whole mess....TOTALLY agree. At no point has anyone offered to make it right; just to "investigate". In the meantime, I have things to get done and limited time in which to get them done. I like most others; find a way to make things work and move on. And "moving on" in this case also includes vendors for future business. I'm doing a full restoration and this isn't the first or probably last car in which I've done or will do. Think everyone here understands the amount of money a full restoration takes; nothing to sneeze at if you're someone selling parts! Do that to a few hundred or thousand people like myself and see where your business ends up....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-05 11:12 AM by Triumphgt6er.

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South San Frncisco, CA, USA   USA
Dilly Dilly !

what for me was a sense of single isolated case, at the time
working in an industry where "making do" , correcting other
peoples and entities screw ups as the prime way to move forward,
I see this particular condition as endemic... as in other
customer-vendor dynamics, the customer had to Prove the fault...
sad stuff. Again I have personally had decent luck over the years
vis a vis defects , but I see thru this forum that we must sllep
with one eye open.
w

Tote Tony M
Kingston, ON, Canada   CAN
Wow, this is very timely for me, as I will be replacing that very same bearing and carrier this spring! So TRF it is.

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TR3driver Randall Y
Confusion, Los Angeles, USA   USA
I wonder ... I know that S-T changed the length of that cover WITHOUT changing the part number. The P/N stayed 100157 from TR2 through TR6, and yet the early covers were too long to use with (at least some of) the later diaphragm clutch.

Could it be that they also changed the diameter?



Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L daily driver
71 Stag LE1473L awaiting engine rebuild
7? Stag awaiting gearbox rebuild

South San Frncisco, CA, USA   USA
maybe they should be marketing and we should be buying a matched
set, sliding sleeve and gearbox nose.
is it possible that a nose could be worn after decades of use, and "need"
an undersize sleeve?
in my own case, not being a commercial enterprise, i could afford the
time spent in literally lapping the two surfaces to mate smoothly, without any hang
points.
I did not use micrometers, nor even know about dimensional specs.
in the two plus years since getting back on the ground, 6000 miles and so far no issues,
maybe just dumb luck...

This would fail Logic 39, but consider... if one decides to replace camshaft bearings
in a BMC A or B engine block, 3 of them, the block bores must be checked for alignment, and when new bearings
are inserted, line boring is necessary to assure alignment and fit of the
camshaft journals...
Even those of us initially ignorant of the whys and wherefores this, come to understand
its necessity.

So i wonder if this applies in princip to bronze sleeve sliding on a steel boss "nose". two
disparate materials separated by decades of manufacture , one brand new, the other having seen
decades of of service... now are set together to continue a critical dynamic function..
and are expected to be a perfect fit? mmm...I then go back to a matched pair idea...

This topic has been a good one, with a level of rancor I for one found a wee surprising..
i think it is less about clutch bearing sleeves and more about dissatisfaction with our parts vendors,
whom I am not defending carte blanche, no one gets a pass.. A lot of good money is thrown at our
venerable vehicles, and vendors need to take our issues seriously...
i am saying there may be other ways to look at this , and so many other matters.
with respects
wes

Be Coming Avatar
Be Coming Kelvin Dodd
So. Calif., USA   USA
I want to thank everyone for their input. Especially those who took the trouble to measure their original parts, so I have some solid data to work with.

We are going to contact Moss Europe and determine what dimensions are specified for the sleeve ID. From my measurements of three sleeves from stock, we are getting sleeves honed to 1.685". These fit the TR3 front cover that we had available to measure (1.683"winking smiley but apparently the TR6 covers measured by list members are running 1.685 - 1.6867". It may be that Moss Europe specified a hone to fit dimension to ensure the best fit to worn components. But if this is the case, we need to note that in marketing materials. I will know more when I get a reply from them.

On another note, the new front covers we measured have a nose dimension varying from 1.677 to 1.680. These appear to be slightly undersize, so I'm asking for manufacturing dimensions for them too. The two components were developed independently, so there was no intent for them to only work together. Each one should match original specifications, within appropriate tolerances.

Jim - We can't replace your lost time, but I can give you something to help cover the cost of the reamer. Please feel free to contact me directly.

Kai - Thank you for taking the time to write your response. I did read the whole thing and understand and agree with your concerns. As you know from your own manufacturing, there are a lot of variables and it is very easy to have something go wrong. It is often not easy to make corrections, but the idea is to move forward and do what you can to improve.

Kelvin.

Triumphgt6er Avatar
Triumphgt6er Jim Snell
Cave Creek, AZ, USA   USA
1974 Triumph TR6 "Bubbles"
Thanks Kelvin...appreciate the follow-up!

Marksg1 Avatar
Marksg1 Mark Greenbaum
Evanston, IL, USA   USA
1976 Triumph TR6 "Nigel"
I decided to try the preassembled throwout bearings from Britsh Northwest. Got lucky, has worked fine for a year. I drilled a 1/4"hole in the bottom of the bell housing to monitor wear and lube. So far so good.



I love the smell of hydrocarbons in the morning.

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