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front trunnion seal

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jordan k Jordan Kurtin
Toronto, ON, Canada   CAN
Is there a trick to installing the small rubber O rings in the bushings . Dont seam to be having much luck with it. Thanks Jordan

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jordan k Jordan Kurtin
Toronto, ON, Canada   CAN
Just to be clear, its the O rings that go between the retaining caps and the large washers. That are around the lower/outer wishbone. Again Thanks Jordan

Krom Avatar
Krom Paul K
San Rafael, CA, USA   USA
Jordan- the O-rings in the trunnion assembly are illustrated in the attached diagrams. The workshop manual doesn't effectively describe how the parts are assembled, but the two diagrams show how the cupped metal washer (called a shield in the Moss catalog) faces outward- away from the lower wishbone. The nylon "top hat" sleeve fits into the cupped washer with the sleeve toward the wishbone. The o-ring fits around the perimeter of the nylon sleeve inside the cupped washer. The metal bushing fits into the nylon sleeve and then the plain metal washer fits over the nylon sleeve. PK

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Attachments:
TR6 Workshop Repair Manual trunnion diagram.pdf    758 KB

Moss catalog front suspension detail trunnion assembly.pdf    675.2 KB
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jordan k Jordan Kurtin
Toronto, ON, Canada   CAN
Paul Thanks for that , I am clear on the sequence of the assembly, the part I am have difficulty with is getting the O ring into the space between the Top hat and the cupped sleeve. Any pointers on that. Thanks Jordan

Krom Avatar
Krom Paul K
San Rafael, CA, USA   USA
Jordan- the attached photo shows the three parts- the cupped washer, the Top Hat nylon (or whatever it's made from) bushing, and the dreaded O-ring. I bought these parts as part of a front suspension kit from the Roadster Factory. The O-ring is more like a square-edged rubber band than an o-ring, as it has square, rather than rounded edges. The O-ring (I'll keep calling that) fits over the outer edge of the Top Hat and stays in place when the Top Hat is inserted into the cupped washer.

I have had other rebuild kits for the trunnion where the O-ring was really an O-ring. It might be more difficult to seat on the Top Hat as a result, but should still fit in between the two. Some of the very old parts I used back in the day were really poor and that included O-rings that were little more than just lame rubber bands. Mine sits just right and stays in place when assembled. If your O-ring wants to fall out, you might try a little grease to hold it in place.
PK


Attachments:
IMG_1970.JPG    20.4 KB
IMG_1970.JPG

Tonyfixit Avatar
Tonyfixit Tony M
Duncan, BC, Canada   CAN
As describied the 'O' ring is supposed to sit on the outter rim of the plastic top hat. The idea is the ring seals and prevents water and grime getting to the trunnion bushing.

The fact is, RTV silicone or Permatex gasket sealant does a better job of sealing if applied in the same area, than the rubber band ever did.

rjc157 Avatar
rjc157 ralph c
pearl river, NY, USA   USA
Jordon maybe you have the wrong parts they fit in real easy take a pic of what you have

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jordan k Jordan Kurtin
Toronto, ON, Canada   CAN
Thanks for the input. I got the round O rings, would be better to have the square edged ones for sure. I guess its just going to be tricky to install them. Oh the winter work continues. Thanks Jordan

BigChill Avatar
BigChill Silver Member Big Chill
Norwood, MA, USA   USA
Jordan,

I am negotiating the same assembly right now, actually still disassembling... But I've been studying these diagrams, both Bentley and Haynes, along with the Big 3 catalogs. There are places to go wrong everywhere.

Someone above states that the job of the cupped washer and the O ring is to keep water out of the trunnion but I am not seeing this.

The assembly has 2 of these top hat bushes and a distance piece for each of the lower outer A arm bushings. They are there to protect the A arm bushings from water and dirt. The main bolt goes through the trunnion without any bushing.

I like the idea of using hylomar to seal these up better. That said, mine have been on a garaged car for 30 years and 30,000 miles and they turn fine. My big issue is with the bolt/trunnion interface. Lots of corrosion in there making things difficult to undo. When it goes back together, lots of "never seize" on the trunnion and maybe a smear of hylomar on the side of the trunion.

If any of this understanding is incorrect, please let me know. And if anyone has tricks for getting the bolt out of the turnnion, please share.



Big Chill

'75 TR6 slowly coming back from the dead...

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Krom Avatar
Krom Paul K
San Rafael, CA, USA   USA
Chill- the bolt running through the metal bushings and the trunnion does like to seize on the metal bushings. Not often does it seize on the trunnion. As you suggest, anti-seize hoop helps on the outside of the length of the bolt and inside the passage for the bolt in the metal bushings and the inside of the trunnion. If seized, bolt rotation with a wrench is the first order, then a hammer. If you have a seized bolt, but are hoping to save the trunnion, a drift slightly smaller than the bolt might be in order. If the entire assembly seems hopeless, you'll be removing the lower control arms and the vertical link as a whole after disconnecting from the ball joint. At that point, heat, an even bigger hammer, or more drastic means may be employed. Beer is good at that point.

jordan k Jordan Kurtin
Toronto, ON, Canada   CAN
Big Chill. My existing bushing assemble was firmly attached to the steel bushing inside the existing rubber bushing. Big hammer and beer helped, but I also think that soaking the whole assemble in rust away or deep creep oil helped as well. The new bushing kit comes with all the bolts and seals for the trunnion so dont worry about damaging the bolt or nut. If you require a new trunnion make sure you buy a quality one, the first set I bought where not great and they all seam to be about the same price. My trunnions where loose where they screwed into the vertical link ( they had been packed with grease ). The peeps on this and other forums seam to be mixed on weather grease or oil should be used. I have gone with oil for mine. Mine is now back together, make sure you replace all upper and lower bushings with the same type( rubber or polyurethane). I also did the sway bar bushings as well. Take a look at the spring collars as well, new one are cheep and may stop a common squeak . Bets of luck with it all. Jordan

BigChill Avatar
BigChill Silver Member Big Chill
Norwood, MA, USA   USA
Hello again,

As usual, thanks for all the feedback. This is an important topic, and the documentation is a bit confusing.

Jordan, you say "My existing bushing assemble was firmly attached to the steel bushing inside the existing rubber bushing." -

- this bushing is in the lower outer A arm, correct?

My trunnion to vertical link connection is good, turns easily, and no play that I can detect. My problem was - that's right, was - the bolt was frozen to the trunnion and there is no bushing here. However, I brought the assembly to a mechanic friend, and with a little heat and an impact wrench, it came right out.

The outer lower A arm bushing also responded quickly to some heat. Acetylene is a good thing!!!

I am replacing all the hardware and bushings, everything. This car has sat for too long, no half measures.

I am going to re-assemble with lots of modern lubrication and oil for the trunnion to vertical link connection.

Have a good weekend everyone.



Big Chill

'75 TR6 slowly coming back from the dead...

jordan k Jordan Kurtin
Toronto, ON, Canada   CAN
BG ya the bushing Im talking about is in the lower control arm..

BigChill Avatar
BigChill Silver Member Big Chill
Norwood, MA, USA   USA
Thanks for that, Jordan. I just want to be sure I understand this setup, rebuilding mine now.

So one big takeaway from all this discussion is that the bolt that passes through the trunnion to tie it to the A arms does NOT have a bushing. We just have a steel to brass interface. This is why it is so subject to being stuck by corrosion, but also, because the trunnion is NOT steel, it is pretty easy to get apart if you have a pneumatic impact wrench and maybe a good torch.

One trick my mechanic noted was to keep the vertical link in the trunnion while trying to get the bolt out, to prevent one from distorting the trunnion during this process.

Have a great weekend, everyone.



Big Chill

'75 TR6 slowly coming back from the dead...

Krom Avatar
Krom Paul K
San Rafael, CA, USA   USA
Big Chill- yes, the trunnion does ride directly on the bolt, rather than on a bushing. The bushings are inside the nylon top hats within the eyes of the lower wishbones (control arms). If the bolt through the trunnion requires a great deal of force to remove, consider replacing both the bolt (often comes as part of the kit) and the trunnion itself. The relatively soft metal of the trunnion can elongate/get sloppy through forceful disassembly and cause unpleasant rattling/sloppy steering if not replaced. The current trunnion reproductions seem to be tighter in tolerances than some of the original replacement trunnions I remember buying back in the 1970s and 80s. The prices are also low enough now that it is probably not worth reusing the old parts in that critical location if their fit is at all suspect. Once you get yours apart and clean it up, try the NEW bolt through your old trunnion to see if it is tight enough/not sloppy. Also, check the fit of the vertical link in the threaded portion. This is such a critical part of your suspension and can be the source of much grief if not put together well.

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