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My engine rebuild, step 297...

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Tonyfixit Avatar
Tonyfixit Tony M
Duncan, British Columbia, Canada   CAN
I have used these starters (Nippondenso) for over 1 million miles, 500k miles on one starter. But I have never had to do this.



I suggest you seek parts via Densoo r youe FLAPS

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Rex A Lott Avatar
Rex A Lott Steve Kincaid
Newcastle, Washington, USA   USA
1976 Triumph TR6 "Trix"
In reply to # 1499107 by Tonyfixit I have used these starters (Nippondenso) for over 1 million miles, 500k miles on one starter. But I have never had to do this.



I suggest you seek parts via Densoo r youe FLAPS

Very helpful video. There are a couple subtle step to the disassembly.

I found the clutch assembly labeled as a ‘drive’ assembly for $80. That’s the clutch. Shaft, pinion, and two bearings. 1/2 price of a new starter. One of many vendors here.
http://www.usautoelectric.com/drive_gear_clutch_bendix/

Thanks Tony.

Rex A Lott Avatar
Rex A Lott Steve Kincaid
Newcastle, Washington, USA   USA
1976 Triumph TR6 "Trix"

Good news: new starter starts the car.
Bad news: No oil. I think.

Not sure of next steps... I think I will pull the rocker assembly. Then pull all spark plugs. Then turn over the engine w the starter. If no oil comes out of the #6 rocker pedestal, then it’s time to pull the head and look for a clog. Boooo.

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Tonyfixit Avatar
Tonyfixit Tony M
Duncan, British Columbia, Canada   CAN
Please give us a re-cap on the history of this engine. Was it re-built, when, what was done etc.

While you have that rocker shaft off, please check it for wear (just sliding the rockers to one side on the springs will do)

Do you otherwise have oil pressure?

Rex A Lott Avatar
Rex A Lott Steve Kincaid
Newcastle, Washington, USA   USA
1976 Triumph TR6 "Trix"
Engine was rebuilt and has 5 min of run time. Hence the title of this thread.
I have good oil pressure. 50-60 psi.

Tonyfixit Avatar
Tonyfixit Tony M
Duncan, British Columbia, Canada   CAN
I ask because it looks so dry. How was oil added and the cyl remain dry?

Has it been sitting very long since the re-build? How...........competent was the builder? The extent of the re-build (what was done)

Obviously oil is not being pumped to the head. Don't run it dry any longer, please investigate.

Note. There is a plug at the lower, rear drivers side of the cyl head, if you remove it, is there any sign of oil?

Krom Avatar
Krom Paul K
San Rafael, CA, USA   USA
Steve- in the video you posted, your rocker shaft is rotating. You can see it with the cotter pin rotating around the rocker assembly closest to the camera. The shaft should not be rotating. The fact that it is rotating indicates that the Philips head screw discussed earlier in the post is not securing the shaft to the pedestal assembly. If the shaft rotates, the shaft does not receive correct oiling. As suggested earlier, fix the screw into the shaft and pedestal using a drop of Loctite and ensure it does not dislodge. PK

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Tonyfixit Avatar
Tonyfixit Tony M
Duncan, British Columbia, Canada   CAN
Good eye Paul!

Rex A Lott Avatar
Rex A Lott Steve Kincaid
Newcastle, Washington, USA   USA
1976 Triumph TR6 "Trix"
Engine history. What was done to it? Well, what wasn't done to it. Cylinders bored .20 over (0.020?), New pistons and rings. Decked. Head shaved to 9.5:1 compression ratio. GP2 cam. Hardened valve seats. New valves. New pushrods. New valve spring assemblys. New main bearings and seals. Still has the old rocker assembly including rocker arms, shaft, etc. I had a local machine shop do all this work. I received an assembled engine and I connected the transmission and dropped it back into the car myself. I personally installed the water pump, alt, starter, manifolds. I personally rebuilt the carbs... and so on.

Currently, I'm trying to make sense of, and balance out the first engine start with the need to tune the carbs and set the engine timing. Clearly, I got the engine running. I was doing a break in run (supposed to be 20 min at 2000 RPM). I shut down after 7 minutes because I thought the valves were noisy. I pulled the valve cover and determined the following:
1. My starter was dead. An odd occurrence, totally unrelated to valve issues.
2. Rockers 1-3 are dry while rockers 4-6 are wet with oil.
3. Rockers 1-3 are covered with carbon sooty deposits. Very thick and heavy deposits. I'll explain more in just a bit.
4. The Phillips screw that goes into the rocker shaft in the #6 rocker pillar is missing.
5. Several valves are waaaaaay out of adjustment. Like 1/8" or more of gap between the rocker and valve.

So these discoveries came a week or so ago and after much head scratching I determined that:
1. After bench testing, my starter just broke. Sprague clutch failed. New starter in place and working fine.
2. Rockers 4-5 sit under the oil fill cap. They probably are still wet from simply putting oil in the engine.
3. I'm using the original carbon canister. I don't know how it happens, but I'm certain carbon from the canister is coming into the valve pan via the breather tube that resides over Cylinder #2. Blasting compressed air into that breather tube produced a comical sooty explosion.
4. Phillips screw and carbon canister are on order from TRF.
5. I seem to recall my engine guy telling me he would leave the engine at TDC to make my life easier when installing the distributor drive dog and the distributor. He never rotated the engine and therefore never adjusted the valves. He left that job to me. My bad.

OK, so next steps that got me to here. I installed a new starter, adjusted the valves, and started the engine knowing that the phillips screw was missing on #6. The video above focuses on that missing screw hole. I was expecting oil to come out of that hole. I now have very good cause to be concerned about oil flow to the rocker assembly. There doesn't seem to be any oil coming up that #6 rocker pillar which supplies oil to the rocker shaft.

If that oil channel is blocked, I will have to pull the head to fix it. That's a big job. Before I do that, I've decided to try one more investigation. I want to pull the entire rocker assembly off of the pillars and (don't panic) start the engine to see if oil comes gushing up the #6 rocker pedestal. This would prove the theory that there is an oil blockage below the pedestal in the head. Perhaps from head gasket or ?? between the block and the head.

Alas, you cannot start the engine without the rocker assembly because the valves don't ever open <head scratch> so... I will pull the rocker assembly, pull all the spark plugs, and turn the engine over with the starter. That should produce enough oil pressure to get oil up to the rocker assembly. If oil gushes out of the pedestal then my problems are in the rocker assembly! If not, my problem is in the head of the engine.

Fingers crossed.

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Krom Avatar
Krom Paul K
San Rafael, CA, USA   USA
Steve- with the shaft rotating, you don't have a path through which the oil will flow. Your assembly will be running dry. It is likely getting oil into the #6 pedestal, and during rotation, into the shaft, but the flow is cut off as the shaft, and its entry hole, rotate out of position. The shaft needs to remain fixed in order for the assembly to be oiled. At its it best, the design is limited in terms of adequate oiling of the assembly towards the front of the head. Allowing the shaft to rotate dooms your assembly to rapid failure.
At the risk of sounding preachy, please understand just how critical the rocker assembly is for proper engine function. The original assemblies are notorious for wear on the shaft and rocker bearing surfaces, causing all sorts of troubles, including burned valves. Don't bother running the motor until you get it squared away. In your shoes, I would disassemble the entire shaft for inspection prior to receipt of the Philips head screw.
Other posts have discussed the auxiliary oil feed to the rocker assembly. Good luck, PK

poolboy Avatar
poolboy Ken D
Sandy Hook, Mississippi, USA   USA
Krom may have alluded to this but if the screw is missing, the rocker shaft itself could have rotated enough where the hole in the shaft and the hole in the pedestal are not lined up.
If that is the case you will not see oil coming out of the screw hole in the pedestal.

Rex A Lott Avatar
Rex A Lott Steve Kincaid
Newcastle, Washington, USA   USA
1976 Triumph TR6 "Trix"
Thanks Ken and Krom. Happy Thanksgiving to you both. If the rotating rocker shaft would block oil flow then this is an easy fix! This insight is very helpful.

I still plan to remove the rocker assembly (not necessarily disassemble the rocker assembly) and see if oil comes up. It’s a simple test. If oil comes up then I’m only one loose screw away from being well sorted. Something I’ve been trying to explain to my wife for years now. :-)

Tonyfixit Avatar
Tonyfixit Tony M
Duncan, British Columbia, Canada   CAN
"New main bearings and seals. Still has the old rocker assembly including rocker arms, shaft, etc. I had a local machine shop do all this work. I received an assembled engine and I connected the transmission and dropped it back into the car " end quote.

A lot has seemingly been put into this engine, but no attention to the rocker shaft or rockers?
The locating screw is missing from the shaft, rocker clearances are WAY off and shaft rocker wear seems (to me) questionable.

Please! when you remove the shaft and rockers take a few seconds to slide the rockers aside on their springs and check the underside of the shaft and rockers for wear.

But, whatever, give it some oil up there!

shynsy Avatar
shynsy tim dafforn
Kenilworth UK, Warwickshire, UK   GBR
Definitely check your rocker gear..
Mine was like this:
http://72tr6.blogspot.co.uk/search?updated-max=2015-12-12T06:22:00-08:00&max-results=7
(See half way down the page..)
Cheers
Tim

TR-PI Lee Cunningham
Sardis, BC, Canada   CAN
Your rear camshaft bearing ‘meters’ the flow of oil to your rocker gear, hence the reason some put an extra oil line to the back of the head. You may not see much oil flow while cranking unless you have a the extra line hooked up.
If the rocker shaft has not been stripped and inspected as part of the rebuild it should now. Over the years gauling can occour on the lower side of the rocker shaft. There are small oilway drilling’s in the shaft the can be plugged by the galling.Any slugging of the oil from the past can cause issues as well. Blow out oil gallery in the shaft with compressed air checking air flow in every hole. Use a drop of blue locktite on the rocker shaft screw making sure the threads are oil free. Prelube with engine assembly lube all the rockers and push rods during assembly. It often takes several minutes for oil to reach the rockers so prelubing

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