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My engine rebuild, step 297...

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Rex A Lott Avatar
Rex A Lott Steve Kincaid
Newcastle, Washington, USA   USA
1976 Triumph TR6 "Trix"
My engine runs smooth when 30-45 degrees advanced as measured with a timing light on cylinder #1.

Retarding toward 0° causes engine to stall.

Thoughts?

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poolboy Avatar
poolboy Ken D
Sandy Hook, Mississippi, USA   USA
I don't always trust the marks on the damper.
How does the car drive, does it still seem like it still has power when you get up to 3500 rpms in 3rd or does it feel like the power has begun dropping off ?
And have you measured the manifold vacuum when the engine is idling ?

gbtr6 Perry Rondou
Titletown, Wisconsin, USA   USA
I had an oil leak from a galley plug under the tach. It is almost imperceptible. it is threaded. The machine shop that cleaned it put a hex threaded plug in now, and no leak.

Perry

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Rex A Lott Avatar
Rex A Lott Steve Kincaid
Newcastle, Washington, USA   USA
1976 Triumph TR6 "Trix"
What is this? Where does it go?


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poolboy Avatar
poolboy Ken D
Sandy Hook, Mississippi, USA   USA
Part of the radio antenna.

Rex A Lott Avatar
Rex A Lott Steve Kincaid
Newcastle, Washington, USA   USA
1976 Triumph TR6 "Trix"
In reply to # 1496062 by poolboy Part of the radio antenna.

Oh duh.

Rex A Lott Avatar
Rex A Lott Steve Kincaid
Newcastle, Washington, USA   USA
1976 Triumph TR6 "Trix"
No Oil !!
So I managed to kludge an exhaust onto the header with some flex pipe from the local auto parts store. That setup worked pretty well. With full fluids and an exhaust connected and some "not terrible" timing and carb settings, I decided it was time to do a break in run. This is a like new engine after a full rebuild with new pistons, rings, tappets, valves, springs, etc.

It sounded great and I was very happy to see all the gauges working. My new electric radiator fan kicked on and worked well. 5 minutes in, the engine seems a little bit 'buzzy' and I removed the oil cap on the valve cover (engine still running) and observed no visible oil and shut it down immediately. <groan>

Help.

What is normal? I don't know. With the engine turning 2000 RPM and fully up to temp... should I see oil wooshing around the valve springs?

Any thoughts on:
1. What might be wrong?
2. How to investigate?

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poolboy Avatar
poolboy Ken D
Sandy Hook, Mississippi, USA   USA
It takes a couple minutes if the rocker shaft was empty to fill with oil and begin to drip out at the rocker arms...but by 5 minutes I would have expected to see some drips....unless the passage way in the head to the rear rocker shaft pedestal is blocked
You should see oil dripping from the rocker arms..not at the tips where they contact the valves, but more around where they rock on the rocker shaft
It won't be a lot at that speed, maybe 2 or 3 drops/second.
It's OK to remove the valve cover at that speed and have a look. It should run OK without a lot of mess at 2000 without a valve cover.

Krom Avatar
Krom Paul K
San Rafael, CA, USA   USA
Steve- you say all gauges are working...so we can take for granted that your oil pressure gauge is properly connected now and showing pressure when the engine has started? if so, you ought not to expect to see oil spraying all about within the valve assembly/rocker area. You should see evidence that the valve train is functioning smoothly and perhaps presence of oil at the rockers where they rotate on the shaft. Once started and pressure is up, after a shutdown, you should see or feel oil in the rocker area, maybe running your fingers under the rockers and springs. If it is dry as a bone, then you may not be getting adequate oiling on the top end. Did you clean out the oil passage in the pedestal that feeds the rocker assembly (someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but I believe it is the rear-most pedestal)?
pk

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dicta dick Taylor
Downey, Callifornia, USA   USA
In reply to # 1497394 by Rex A Lott No Oil !!
So I managed to kludge an exhaust onto the header with some flex pipe from the local auto parts store. That setup worked pretty well. With full fluids and an exhaust connected and some "not terrible" timing and carb settings, I decided it was time to do a break in run. This is a like new engine after a full rebuild with new pistons, rings, tappets, valves, springs, etc.

It sounded great and I was very happy to see all the gauges working. My new electric radiator fan kicked on and worked well. 5 minutes in, the engine seems a little bit 'buzzy' and I removed the oil cap on the valve cover (engine still running) and observed no visible oil and shut it down immediately. <groan>

Help.

What is normal? I don't know. With the engine turning 2000 RPM and fully up to temp... should I see oil wooshing around the valve springs?

Any thoughts on:
1. What might be wrong?
2. How to investigate?

Steve --- The #6 rocker pedestal is drilled so oil can go up thru to get to the rocker shaft. There is a Phillps-type screw here and when removed, oil should gush out with the engine idling. If it doesn't, and the oil path is clear up to this pedestal, is there any chance that the pedestals were shimmed up and this particular shim did not have a hole for the oil passage?
Others have noted that their new rocker shaft wasn't 'cleaned out' from the factory drilling. If it is necessary for you to take out the rocker assembly, this can be tested with the rocker shaft submerged in a tank of water, with air supplied to one end of the shaft. (Bubbles should be seen escaping from all of the oil holes)

At best, there will only be a weeping of oil at the rockers at low speeds.

Dick

Rex A Lott Avatar
Rex A Lott Steve Kincaid
Newcastle, Washington, USA   USA
1976 Triumph TR6 "Trix"
In reply to # 1497398 by poolboy It takes a couple minutes if the rocker shaft was empty to fill with oil and begin to drip out at the rocker arms...but by 5 minutes I would have expected to see some drips....unless the passage way in the head to the rear rocker shaft pedestal is blocked
You should see oil dripping from the rocker arms..not at the tips where they contact the valves, but more around where they rock on the rocker shaft
It won't be a lot at that speed, maybe 2 or 3 drops/second.
It's OK to remove the valve cover at that speed and have a look. It should run OK without a lot of mess at 2000 without a valve cover.

Total engine run time was 7-8 min. My electric radiator fan comes on when the bottom of the radiator is warm and it was running. Water temp gauge was fixed on 3/4-hot and holding steady (great!), so yes... engine was full running temp. Engine was not idling. As part of engine break-in, I was running at 2,000 RPM with an oil additive.

I'll consider removing the rocker cover and running the engine. I don't mind some oil spilling. My real problem is that I don't know what normal is. I expected to see visible amounts of oil moving around the rockers. It sounds like that would not be typical.

Thanks for your input.

Rex A Lott Avatar
Rex A Lott Steve Kincaid
Newcastle, Washington, USA   USA
1976 Triumph TR6 "Trix"
In reply to # 1497406 by Krom Steve- you say all gauges are working...so we can take for granted that your oil pressure gauge is properly connected now and showing pressure when the engine has started? if so, you ought not to expect to see oil spraying all about within the valve assembly/rocker area. You should see evidence that the valve train is functioning smoothly and perhaps presence of oil at the rockers where they rotate on the shaft. Once started and pressure is up, after a shutdown, you should see or feel oil in the rocker area, maybe running your fingers under the rockers and springs. If it is dry as a bone, then you may not be getting adequate oiling on the top end. Did you clean out the oil passage in the pedestal that feeds the rocker assembly (someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but I believe it is the rear-most pedestal)?
pk

Thanks for your feedback.

Oil pressure gauge was working as expected. ~60 PSI cold and a little less when warm. Oil pressure sensor is in a different oil channel in the engine block and it correctly canceled the oil pressure warning light. Following your advice and Ken's advice, I might run it without the rocker cover and see what's up.

Rex A Lott Avatar
Rex A Lott Steve Kincaid
Newcastle, Washington, USA   USA
1976 Triumph TR6 "Trix"
In reply to # 1497413 by dicta
Steve --- The #6 rocker pedestal is drilled so oil can go up thru to get to the rocker shaft. There is a Phillps-type screw here and when removed, oil should gush out with the engine idling. If it doesn't, and the oil path is clear up to this pedestal, is there any chance that the pedestals were shimmed up and this particular shim did not have a hole for the oil passage?
Others have noted that their new rocker shaft wasn't 'cleaned out' from the factory drilling. If it is necessary for you to take out the rocker assembly, this can be tested with the rocker shaft submerged in a tank of water, with air supplied to one end of the shaft. (Bubbles should be seen escaping from all of the oil holes)

At best, there will only be a weeping of oil at the rockers at low speeds.

Dick

Thanks Dick. I'll find that screw and investigate with the cover off and the engine running.

Rex A Lott Avatar
Rex A Lott Steve Kincaid
Newcastle, Washington, USA   USA
1976 Triumph TR6 "Trix"
Cyl 1-3 are dry.
Cyl 4-6 are wet.
I don’t see a Phillips screw on the #6 rocker pedestal.

The closeup is cyl #2 which has excessive gap and is covered in sooty dirt. Exhaust leak? Note these valve springs have less than 1 hr run time.


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Tonyfixit Avatar
Tonyfixit Tony M
Duncan, British Columbia, Canada   CAN
That valve gap seems very excessive, plus is the circled area an indication of rocker or rocker shaft wear?


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