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Engine rotation direction - and stopping it...

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BigChill Avatar
BigChill Silver Member Big Chill
Norwood, Massachusetts, USA   USA
So, my unit is up on jack stands w/o a drive shaft or differential. And I want to remove the crankshaft front pulley, so how do I keep the engine from rotating?

My thought is to put some rope into the cylinder, say numbers 1 and 6, as they are coming up to TDC (maybe as they are leaving TDC depending on rotation direction) and let the rope keep things from moving. Does this make sense?

What is the normal rotation direction, looking from the front?



Big Chill

'75 TR6 slowly coming back from the dead...

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poolboy Avatar
poolboy Ken D
Sandy Hook, Mississippi, USA   USA
Clockwise.

Tote Tony M
Kingston, Ontario, Canada   CAN
The rope trick is used in small engines and chainsaws too, when you want to stop the engine from moving. On a multi-cylinder engine, it should work too, you definitely don't want to get the valves opening with the rope in there.

If the driveshaft flange on the transmission is still in place, you could probably force a large screwdriver or crowbar in there and jam it up from moving with the car in gear.

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brucejon Avatar
brucejon Bruce Jones
Santa Cruz, CA, USA   USA
1962 Triumph TR3B
1963 Triumph TR3B "Tupperware TR3"
1969 Triumph Spitfire MkIII
1972 Triumph TR6
Do you have enough removed to get an impact wrench on it?

titanic Berry P
Albany, Oregon, USA   USA
If you are going to remove the pan, I would wedge a piece of wood between a crank throw and the block. If using the rope trick, remove the rocker assembly to prevent damaging a valve.
Berry

dicta dick Taylor
Downey, Callifornia, USA   USA
In reply to # 1484400 by BigChill So, my unit is up on jack stands w/o a drive shaft or differential. And I want to remove the crankshaft front pulley, so how do I keep the engine from rotating?

My thought is to put some rope into the cylinder, say numbers 1 and 6, as they are coming up to TDC (maybe as they are leaving TDC depending on rotation direction) and let the rope keep things from moving. Does this make sense?

What is the normal rotation direction, looking from the front?

The rope trick should work, but there are other ways. If the flywheel is exposed, it can be locked from turning. Either by something in your metal scrap bin, or from your local FLAPS. Ring gear lock, they're called.
The quickest way is by adjusting the jaws of a pipe wrench to grip the fan extension. Set the handle to bump up against a solid object, then use a 1-1/8" socket down in the pulley to loosen the bolt.

Dick


Attachments:
Ring Gear Lock.JPG    38.3 KB
Ring Gear Lock.JPG

BraxtonO Avatar
BraxtonO Gold Member Braxton O
Raleigh, North Carolina, USA   USA
After struggling with this same issue for a bit, I put an impact wrench on it - worked great, quick. Impact hits it hard and fast enough - you don't even have to try to lock motor from rotating. Just a couple of blips and it was done. Almost too simple.

Others on here with much more experience than me may have thoughts on why this might or might not be a good idea. But in this particular case it worked very well for me.

Best,
Braxton



" You know - I love this thing. She's got a few leaks, but it's only the engine, gearbox, and the diff - so not too bad....."

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brucejon Avatar
brucejon Bruce Jones
Santa Cruz, CA, USA   USA
1962 Triumph TR3B
1963 Triumph TR3B "Tupperware TR3"
1969 Triumph Spitfire MkIII
1972 Triumph TR6
I've done it - on recommendation of a mechanic friend of mine, Lots of others. You can search on this forum, or 6 pack forum. To me it is a no brainer to do it. No mess with trying to control the engine turning.

BigChill Avatar
BigChill Silver Member Big Chill
Norwood, Massachusetts, USA   USA
Thanks to everyone for their helpful information.

I do not have a compressor or an impact wrench, so I will try Dick's pipe wrench idea, and fall back to the rope trick if needed.

I will let you all know how it works out.

Be safe, everyone!



Big Chill

'75 TR6 slowly coming back from the dead...

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Perdido Avatar
Perdido Gold Member Rut Rutledge
Tuscaloosa, Alabama, USA   USA
In reply to # 1484512 by BigChill Thanks to everyone for their helpful information.

I do not have a compressor or an impact wrench, so I will try Dick's pipe wrench idea, and fall back to the rope trick if needed.

I will let you all know how it works out.

Be safe, everyone!

I've owned a Harbor Freight electric impact wrench for a number of years and they work very well...so much so that I don't use my IR pneumatic wrench unless it's a lot of torque required. Coupled with their deep well impact sockets it's a bargain and a time saver. Other makes are good as well, but cost a little more. Look for the 20-25% off coupons online.
Rut

BigChill Avatar
BigChill Silver Member Big Chill
Norwood, Massachusetts, USA   USA
Good info, Rut. I will look into that.



Big Chill

'75 TR6 slowly coming back from the dead...

tvrnut Roger Lavallee
Jamestown, Rhode Island, USA   USA
NOT FOR THE FAINT HEARTED

A mechanic friend told me about this method years ago.
At first I was intimidated trying it but have used several times with success.
Try at your own risk.

This method is used if the engine is in the car and you do not have access to the flywheel,
or you cannot get an impact gun on the damper pulley bolt, or do not have access to one.
Or you prefer not to use the rope trick.
As side note: Some engine manufacturers not advise using an impact gun to tighten the damper or flywheel crank bolts.


Place a socket and ratchet or breaker bar on the pulley bolt head and position the so it is against the chassis.
You can use a piece of 2X4 or wood block between the frame and ratchet/breaker bar handle.
Set the ratchet to loosen the bolt while opposing the engine turning direction. (SEE PRECAUTIONS BELOW)

Remove the coil wire to prevent the engine from starting
Place car in neutral and use the ignition key to MOMENTARILY jog the starter just once.

If you get the ratchet set wrong the socket will just rotate and not break the bolt loose.
Just set it the opposite way and jog the starter again.

Precautions:

Be sure you know the engine turning direction, normally clockwise as viewed from the front of the engine.
Have someone jog the starter and observe which way the damper pulley turns.
If the damper pulley rotates clockwise the breaker bar handle would be set against the lower right USA driver side frame
assuming the pulley bolt is right hand threads and loosens anti-clockwise.

If you have tight clearance to the radiator then do not use this method or place something between the radiator and ratchet to make sure
it cannot hit and damage the core if the ratchet jumps off.

Make sure to remove the coil wire to prevent the engine from starting.

Do NOT leave any space between the ratchet handle and frame as this will cause the handle to slam against the frame.

Again using this unconventional method is at your own risk.

If you have used this method and had bad results, caused damage, or have other concerns please comment.

TVRNUT

Perdido Avatar
Perdido Gold Member Rut Rutledge
Tuscaloosa, Alabama, USA   USA
In reply to # 1484709 by tvrnut NOT FOR THE FAINT HEARTED

A mechanic friend told me about this method years ago.
At first I was intimidated trying it but have used several times with success.
Try at your own risk.

This method is used if the engine is in the car and you do not have access to the flywheel,
or you cannot get an impact gun on the damper pulley bolt, or do not have access to one.
Or you prefer not to use the rope trick.
As side note: Some engine manufacturers not advise using an impact gun to tighten the damper or flywheel crank bolts.


Place a socket and ratchet or breaker bar on the pulley bolt head and position the so it is against the chassis.
You can use a piece of 2X4 or wood block between the frame and ratchet/breaker bar handle.
Set the ratchet to loosen the bolt while opposing the engine turning direction. (SEE PRECAUTIONS BELOW)

Remove the coil wire to prevent the engine from starting
Place car in neutral and use the ignition key to MOMENTARILY jog the starter just once.

If you get the ratchet set wrong the socket will just rotate and not break the bolt loose.
Just set it the opposite way and jog the starter again.

Precautions:

Be sure you know the engine turning direction, normally clockwise as viewed from the front of the engine.
Have someone jog the starter and observe which way the damper pulley turns.
If the damper pulley rotates clockwise the breaker bar handle would be set against the lower right USA driver side frame
assuming the pulley bolt is right hand threads and loosens anti-clockwise.

If you have tight clearance to the radiator then do not use this method or place something between the radiator and ratchet to make sure
it cannot hit and damage the core if the ratchet jumps off.

Make sure to remove the coil wire to prevent the engine from starting.

Do NOT leave any space between the ratchet handle and frame as this will cause the handle to slam against the frame.

Again using this unconventional method is at your own risk.

If you have used this method and had bad results, caused damage, or have other concerns please comment.

TVRNUT

Roger,
I've personally used this method on an Austin Healey and MGB and it works quite well. I use the HF (I live there) breaker bar and one of my large impact sockets on the nut/bolt, wrap a towel around the handle where it rests against the sheet metal and turn the key. It's pretty violent, but works every time.
Rut

BigChill Avatar
BigChill Silver Member Big Chill
Norwood, Massachusetts, USA   USA
So, tonight, I got the fan off, put a big pipe wrench on the fan mounting extension, and put my bid torque wrench on the bolt. First tried to tighten the bolt, a good trick I use a lot. Then reversed things, and the bolt came right out. I am 6' 1" and 250, I got a little torque too.

So, onto the next issue - how to I get the fan extension off? The engine crank turns pretty easily. Do I need to put a pipe wrench on the tranny flange? Or the rope trick?

Thanks again for everyone's help.



Big Chill

'75 TR6 slowly coming back from the dead...

poolboy Avatar
poolboy Ken D
Sandy Hook, Mississippi, USA   USA
Probably just rust..and 2 dowel pins holding it to the damper.

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