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GT6 Gearbox

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Mail From: (email redacted) (DUHART JOHN)

> "Seems like a good deal,...could you share the Kipping address and/or

> phone numbers???"

>

>The number I used was from an earlier posting. I called
011-441-203-645333.

>The time difference was +6 hours from Texas.

>011-441-203-645030 FAX. They also sent me a pretty good catalog with
some parts

>listed that I have not been able to find in the US.

>Good luck,

>Richard Ceraldi

>71 GT6 MKIII KF166L





I guess I should of read the rest of the posts before I sent my request.
I gave them a call but they don't have parts for TR's (what are they
thinking! ;-) ). Does anyone have any good source for parts outside of
the US that are reasonably priced.



JHD IV





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Mail From: (email redacted) (Larry E. Snyder (email redacted) 314-694-3626)

> I gave them a call but they don't have parts for TR's (what are they
>thinking! ;-) ). Does anyone have any good source for parts outside of
>the US that are reasonably priced.

For us Spitfire and GT6 owners, they are thinking Good Thoughts!

Larry
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Mail From: (email redacted) (Tony Robinson)



Larry,
Vicky Brit has a tranny for GT6 for $599. no core and the pay the freight.
Usual UPS delivery time. Comes sans shifter.
Tony R.
66,67,68,69GT6
64TR4 oops
TTFN
###



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Mail From: "Richard Jackson - Network Technician ext. 2570"
<(email redacted)>


>> I gave them a call but they don't have parts for TR's (what are they
>>thinking! ;-) ). Does anyone have any good source for parts outside of
>>the US that are reasonably priced.

>For us Spitfire and GT6 owners, they are thinking Good Thoughts!

And for us Brits who live 30 miles away from JK's we're thinking....YeeHaa NO
shipping costs either. :-)

I'll go look up an address or two for Brit TR suppliers now. I'll post to the
list for anyone else who may want to know, OK.

Rich - Actually 29 miles from JK, but that seemed a bit too accurate.


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Mail From: "Chris Kantarjiev" <(email redacted)>

The problem I have is getting my hand in the space allowed to get to
the
refill plug.

Right. The solution here is your friendly X-acto knife. Cut a 1" hole in the
gearbox cover, under the rug, next to the filler plug. Buy a 1" rubber plug
from TRF (p/n 600399). Now all you have to do is pull up the carpet and remove
the plug; put your 8-side 7/16" socket on an extension and reach through the
gearbox cover. Now it's easy.


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Mail From: "jonmac" <(email redacted)>


Listers,

There's an ex-Triumph guy (and one of my former partners in
crime and dishonest dealing) called Chris Holbrook who lives
somewhere in Michigan (I think) and has two sons. They all
drive Triumphs. One son has a TR6, the other has a Spitfire
Six and Chris has a Stag. He sent me the following message
and I know this general subject came up a month or so ago -
but I failed to archive the threads. If anyone can help him
with the problem, please reply to him off list. I've done my
best to persuade him to join and provided him with one or
two contacts he can follow up himself.

Cheers and thanks
Jonmac

Chris wrote to me:

I wonder if you could have a chat to those in the know re
GT6 boxes. There was one spec up to about 1970, and another
form 1970 onwards. what are the differences to the innards,
and what parts are interchangeable.
We are having trouble with synchros on Mark's car despite a
rebuild by a trans repairer.
Secondly, when cold and without the o/d engaged, we
occasionally get a free-wheeling effect. Hit the throttle,
and it goes back to normal, and is fine thereafter. Could
this be something to do with the one way clutch? If
so, how can it do this, and is there a fix? This clutch was
replaced on the rebuild with a good used one, new are not
available.
Is there anyone good you know who could send us a rebuilt
GT6 box with o/d mainshaft and no o/drive, or with an
o/drive. We now have a D type, and a J type would of course
be better. Would they want our box back? What would the
warranty position - don't tell me "desperate". Finally, how
much?

ENDS



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Mail From: "David A. Templeton" <(email redacted)>


Good morning Listers

Okay, I have taken the interior out and undone all of the bolts from the
bell housing and supported the engine. The problem is, how do I get the
gearbox clear of the prop-shaft to pull it out? The workshop manual states
I should lift the engine with the jack and wood block so the until the rear
flange clears the shaft. It would seem I have to put a fair amount of lift
on the sump to achieve this, is this right??

My second issue is when I cracked the seal between the bell housing and the
engine oil came out the bottom, Since I am not loosing oil in the engine
yes big surprise ), and the oil in the engine is new and fresh I suspect
that the oil is from the gearbox itself because it looked very dark and old,
which would explain a lot. No 2nd gear, clutch not fully disengaging from
oil contamination etc. How hard is it to replace the oil seal in the
gearbox?

As always thanks in advance

David A. Templeton
Open Text Corp.
Waterloo, ON
Canada
WebSite: trandmustang.homestead.com

'74 Triumph SpitSix
'66 Ford Mustang (Wife's)
'59 Triumph TR3a (Project)
'99 GMC Safari
'95 GMC K2500 Sierra







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Mail From: "Graham Stretch" <(email redacted)>


Hi David
Yes you do have to jack quite a long way, make sure the flange on the
propshaft is tilted the right way and you will reduce the height needed
quite considerably.
Even new engine oil that has been in there a few days will come out like
syrup, the gearbox seal is easy enough if you have one, earlier cars from
the range had a box with a scroll type oil seal which relied on the thrower
ring working well, not having too much oil in the box and a reasonably tight
clearance between the shaft and the front extension. If this is not working
and all the parameters were obeyed especially the oil not being over filled
then you need a new bell housing with the lip type seal (and input shaft?
which may not match the laygear cluster teeth (BTDT)) If you have the lip
type seal it is much like any other seal to remove and refit.
Whilst you have the box out remove the rear oil seal and the rear engine oil
seal and replace these as well, if you can try to remove the rear engine
seal without removing the alloy casting as this could damage the sump gasket
and then you would have to change that as well. when you fit the new seals
the rear engine in particular doesn't have a flange to set the depth at
which it is installed so you can move it in further or not so far depending
on the previous installation to have the lip contact an unworn portion of
the shaft.

Graham.
2500PI MKII
Sprinted Dolomite
2000 MKI
1300 Toledo
1300 front wheel drive
members.tripod.co.uk/TriumphIW/index.html

----- Original Message -----
From: David A. Templeton <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 2:25 PM
Subject: GT6 gearbox


>
> Good morning Listers
>
> Okay, I have taken the interior out and undone all of the bolts from the
> bell housing and supported the engine. The problem is, how do I get the
> gearbox clear of the prop-shaft to pull it out? The workshop manual
states
> I should lift the engine with the jack and wood block so the until the
rear
> flange clears the shaft. It would seem I have to put a fair amount of
lift
> on the sump to achieve this, is this right??
>
> My second issue is when I cracked the seal between the bell housing and
the
> engine oil came out the bottom, Since I am not loosing oil in the engine
> yes big surprise ), and the oil in the engine is new and fresh I suspect
> that the oil is from the gearbox itself because it looked very dark and
old,
> which would explain a lot. No 2nd gear, clutch not fully disengaging from
> oil contamination etc. How hard is it to replace the oil seal in the
> gearbox?
>
> As always thanks in advance
>
> David A. Templeton
> Open Text Corp.
> Waterloo, ON
> Canada
> WebSite: trandmustang.homestead.com
>
> '74 Triumph SpitSix
> '66 Ford Mustang (Wife's)
> '59 Triumph TR3a (Project)
> '99 GMC Safari
> '95 GMC K2500 Sierra
>
>
>
>
>



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Mail From: Joe Curry <(email redacted)>


David,
Your car probably has the sliding joint on one end of the drive shaft. If so, just take a screwdriver and separate the flange at the
rear of the tranny from the drive shaft flange and slide the driveshaft to the rear. This will allow you to jack up the rear of the
engine and remove the gearbox. (Make sure you have loosened the rear tranny mounts).

Joe
"David A. Templeton" wrote:
>
> Good morning Listers
>
> Okay, I have taken the interior out and undone all of the bolts from the
> bell housing and supported the engine. The problem is, how do I get the
> gearbox clear of the prop-shaft to pull it out? The workshop manual states
> I should lift the engine with the jack and wood block so the until the rear
> flange clears the shaft. It would seem I have to put a fair amount of lift
> on the sump to achieve this, is this right??
>
> My second issue is when I cracked the seal between the bell housing and the
> engine oil came out the bottom, Since I am not loosing oil in the engine
> yes big surprise ), and the oil in the engine is new and fresh I suspect
> that the oil is from the gearbox itself because it looked very dark and old,
> which would explain a lot. No 2nd gear, clutch not fully disengaging from
> oil contamination etc. How hard is it to replace the oil seal in the
> gearbox?
>
> As always thanks in advance
>
> David A. Templeton
> Open Text Corp.
> Waterloo, ON
> Canada
> WebSite: trandmustang.homestead.com
>
> '74 Triumph SpitSix
> '66 Ford Mustang (Wife's)
> '59 Triumph TR3a (Project)
> '99 GMC Safari
> '95 GMC K2500 Sierra


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Mail From: "David A. Templeton" <(email redacted)>


A quick question, what are peoples experiences on the cost of rebuilding a
GT6 gearbox or any TR one for that matter. It seems mine looks like it
needs one. It won't go into second at any speed and when the drain plug was
pulled little metal shaving were attached to the magnet.

That is the advice I have so far, and it is going for a second opinion
tonight. The other gears are no problem so far.

Thanks & regards

David A. Templeton
Open Text Corp.
Waterloo, ON
Canada
WebSite: trandmustang.homestead.com

'74 Triumph SpitSix
'66 Ford Mustang (Wife's)
'59 Triumph TR3a (Project)
'99 GMC Safari
'95 GMC K2500 Sierra







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Mail From: Joe Curry <(email redacted)>


David,
That will depend entirely on what is wrong. Things like cluster gears are very expensive as are the hubs. However, synchro rings
aren't all that bad and if you don't have to replace any of the main gears, hubs or shafts, you can probably get by for a hundred bucks
or so (US) if you do the work yourself. If you can get several parts tranies, you might be able to cannibalize them to make one good
one without having to buy new parts. But always replace the seals and bearings just to be on the safe side!

Joe

"David A. Templeton" wrote:
>
> A quick question, what are peoples experiences on the cost of rebuilding a
> GT6 gearbox or any TR one for that matter. It seems mine looks like it
> needs one. It won't go into second at any speed and when the drain plug was
> pulled little metal shaving were attached to the magnet.
>
> That is the advice I have so far, and it is going for a second opinion
> tonight. The other gears are no problem so far.
>
> Thanks & regards
>
> David A. Templeton
> Open Text Corp.
> Waterloo, ON
> Canada
> WebSite: trandmustang.homestead.com
>
> '74 Triumph SpitSix
> '66 Ford Mustang (Wife's)
> '59 Triumph TR3a (Project)
> '99 GMC Safari
> '95 GMC K2500 Sierra


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Mail From: Douglas Frank <(email redacted)>


"David A. Templeton" wrote:
>
> A quick question, what are peoples experiences on the cost of
> rebuilding a GT6 gearbox or any TR one for that matter.

I rebuilt my GT6 box over the winter:

- new lock rings
- new thrust washers
- new layshaft
- used laygear
- new reverse idler gear
- used 1st speed gear
- used 2nd speed gear
- new 3rd speed gear
- new synchro springs
- new synchro baulk rings
- new copper washer
- new thrust washer springs
- new bearings (3)
- gasket set
- bushings (3, instead of needles)
- nyloc nuts
- new shifter bushings
- new oil thrower
- new seals
- new throwout bearing
- new " " sleeve
- used " " fork ($90!!!)

Total was probably something like $500-550, I guess.

--
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ZKO 110 Spit Brook Rd. of which the human heart is
603-884-0501 Nashua, NH USA 03062 more or less composed.


Oh, yeah-- 2 qt. Redline MTL, ohmaybe $32.

For disassembly, you'll need a fair-sized hammer, say 24-36 oz., and a
brass (or lead) drift. Contact me offlist for how to put it together
without all the Churchill tools.


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Mail From: David Massey <(email redacted)>


Message text written by "David A. Templeton"
>A quick question, what are peoples experiences on the cost of rebuilding a
GT6 gearbox or any TR one for that matter. It seems mine looks like it
needs one. It won't go into second at any speed and when the drain plug
was
pulled little metal shaving were attached to the magnet.

<
At any speed? Even at rest? It might be the shifter. You can take the
top off of the transmission and work the shifter and see if the problem is
there. (caution! Do not operate the shifting yokes with the top off. It is
far too easy to overstroke the yokes and the detent balls will come out!
Ask me how I know)

$300 to $500 (US) for parts. You might try refilling the trans with 30W
non-detergent, drive a few miles, drain and refill and see if that has any
effect. Probably not but it is easy and cheap. A friend did this with is
misbehaving overdrive and it works better. Still not right but better.

Good luck

Dave Massey
St. Louis, MO USA


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Mail From: Tom Beaver <(email redacted)>


David

The following items were replaced on my tranny rebuild:

New mainshaft - Rimmer Bros.
Rebuild kit which includes washers, spacers, bearings, gaskets(?) - TRF
Used 2nd gear - John Kipping
Syncro's - TRF

Sorry, Can't be very specific regarding costs involved. My guess is $400
total for internal parts.

Make sure to check that the bolt and nut securing the gear lever to the
rail is not prohibiting the shift to 2nd before tearing apart. Probably
not your problem if yyou have been using it.

Tom Beaver
Indy





At 01:35 PM 06/14/2000 -0400, you wrote:
>
>A quick question, what are peoples experiences on the cost of rebuilding a
>GT6 gearbox or any TR one for that matter. It seems mine looks like it
>needs one. It won't go into second at any speed and when the drain plug was
>pulled little metal shaving were attached to the magnet.
>
>That is the advice I have so far, and it is going for a second opinion
>tonight. The other gears are no problem so far.
>
>Thanks & regards
>
> David A. Templeton
> Open Text Corp.
> Waterloo, ON
> Canada
> WebSite: trandmustang.homestead.com
>
> '74 Triumph SpitSix
> '66 Ford Mustang (Wife's)
> '59 Triumph TR3a (Project)
> '99 GMC Safari
> '95 GMC K2500 Sierra
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



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Mail From: Barry Schwartz <(email redacted)>

Can an informed member tell me if the '72 GT6 transmission interchanges with
say Spitfire or TR6.
*************************************
In a word, no.
Without getting too technical (keeping it simple). . .
The TR6 box is entirely different in size, weight, mounting, and power
handling capacity (that is to say, bigger and stronger)
The GT6 box while outwardly the same as the Spitfire (and using many of the
same parts as the later Spitfire and TR7 (main case, tail shaft, some
internal parts) the bellhousing is completely different between the two,
and before you go thinking that you could just swap these, the input shafts
are different length, size and spline - and the clutch actuation is
applied, executed, and mounted differently -






Barry Schwartz (San Diego) (email redacted)

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Mail From: "Alun Bain" <(email redacted)>

I have recently purchased a Mk3 GT6 and I have been told by quite a few people
that the gearbox is very weak. can any other gearbox be used without too much
modification? does the 2.5 PI/TC engine and gearbox fit in without much
trouble? is it at all worth doing? First gear is noisy and doesn't engage as
easy as it should, the other gears are fine and I want to get the gearbox
fixed but if there is an option to upgrade the gear box (and maybe the engine)
I would be interested to hear your thoughts...

Alun Bain - 1971 Mk3 GT6

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Mail From: "William Davies" <(email redacted)>

----- Original Message -----
From: Alun Bain <(email redacted)>

> I have recently purchased a Mk3 GT6 and I have been told by quite a few people
> that the gearbox is very weak. can any other gearbox be used without too much
> modification?

Hi Alun,
The gearbox shouldn't be a problem with a standard engine - I have friends who are driving (aggressively) GT6s with a 2.5 engine without problems - the diff is usually the weakest link in this setup.

> does the 2.5 PI/TC engine and gearbox fit in without much
> trouble?

The big saloon box is considerably larger and most installations end up with the output shaft sitting higher than in the original installation. This makes the propshaft articulate more on each revolution so it's not desirable. Having said that I am aware of several people who've done this conversion without any reported problems.

> is it at all worth doing?

In the UK I would say no as rebuilt boxes are not expensive. On your side of the planet it depends on the relative cost of rebuilding the original box.

> First gear is noisy and doesn't engage as
> easy as it should, the other gears are fine and I want to get the gearbox
> fixed but if there is an option to upgrade the gear box (and maybe the engine)
> I would be interested to hear your thoughts...

Can you double declutch down into 1st? If so it's probably a matter of worn synchromesh. Herald and early Spitfire drivers are well used to non-synchro 1st gear as our cars weren't built with synchro on the lowest gear.
Cheers,
Bill.

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Wiltshire
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Mail From: Chris De Wet <(email redacted)>

Alun

AFAIK the 2000 / 2.5 Saloon gearbox fits without any major modification .

Kind regards .
Chris de Wet .
PO Box 472 , Ifafi , 0260 , South Africa .
Tel 012-3398071 ( office )
Fax 012-3398201
Cell 0839989744

1956 Triumph TR 3 .
1964 Triumph Spitfire 4 ( Mk 1 ) .
1967 Triumph GT 6 Mk 1 .

Plus a few other Triumphs as well :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: Alun Bain [mailto:(email redacted)]
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 12:42 AM
To: (email redacted)
Subject: GT6 Gearbox


I have recently purchased a Mk3 GT6 and I have been told by quite a few
people
that the gearbox is very weak. can any other gearbox be used without too
much
modification? does the 2.5 PI/TC engine and gearbox fit in without much
trouble? is it at all worth doing? First gear is noisy and doesn't engage
as
easy as it should, the other gears are fine and I want to get the gearbox
fixed but if there is an option to upgrade the gear box (and maybe the
engine)
I would be interested to hear your thoughts...

Alun Bain - 1971 Mk3 GT6
"This e-mail is sent in terms of the following policy/disclaimer. Click on
this link sapo.co.za/mail_disclaimer.htm to read full
disclaimer."

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Mail From: "David Templeton" <(email redacted)>

In the early part of the summer I was driving home and I found that I
could not shift in 2nd & 3rd. This gearbox is a MKIII GT6 with OD and 2
years earlier I had the same issue. It turned out to be a broken
circlip holding the 2nd and 3rd gear cluster together on the mainshaft.


The question is, I am about to pull the box out of the car, is this
common with these gearboxes? I only have maybe 1500 miles on this last
circlip, has anyone done modifications to beef up this area?

Thanks
David Templeton
'59 Triumph TR3a
'74 Triumph Spitfire





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Mail From: "Graham Stretch" <(email redacted)>

Hi David
I have done quite a few of these boxes with the broken circlip,I guess that
makes it common? The only tip I can give is don't spread the clip any more
than necessary, and always use a new one even if the original is in one bit!
I had to buy a bag of ten clips last time I ordered some locally (unipart
agent) about 10 yrs ago, I think I only have 2 left now.

Graham

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Templeton"
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 3:53 AM
Subject: GT6 Gearbox


> In the early part of the summer I was driving home and I found that I
> could not shift in 2nd & 3rd. This gearbox is a MKIII GT6 with OD and 2
> years earlier I had the same issue. It turned out to be a broken
> circlip holding the 2nd and 3rd gear cluster together on the mainshaft.
>
>
> The question is, I am about to pull the box out of the car, is this
> common with these gearboxes? I only have maybe 1500 miles on this last
> circlip, has anyone done modifications to beef up this area?
>
> Thanks
> David Templeton
> '59 Triumph TR3a
> '74 Triumph Spitfire



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Mail From: "David Templeton" <(email redacted)>

Thanks for the info Graham, from this info I get the following points:

1/ Don't buy one clip buy a box.
2/ This is a yearly maintenance procedure, once done a couple of times
it will become a snap and I can do it in my sleep :-P
3/ Treat the clips with minimal stress and realize any diversion from
install, get a new one.

I know I can have the gearbox out in about 45minutes to 1hour, how long
and do you have a successful procedure that minimizes the work :-) Yes,
learning from the experienced is always the best

David Templeton
'59 Triumph TR3a
'74 Triumph Spitfire





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Mail From: "Graham Stretch" <(email redacted)>

Hi David
You only need a box if you are going to rebuild other peoples gearboxes or a
lot for your self!
Not really a yearly maintenance procedure, I have done several different
boxes, something I forgot to mention, check the groove in the shaft, the
edges of the groove should be square, if the edges are radiused you will
need a new shaft!
I have all the bits ready before starting, and working at a steady pace, not
rushing, and without rebuilding an overdrive I recon to rebuild a gearbox in
a day, excluding removal and re-fitting. I guess if you were in a real hurry
and had done it a couple of times before you could shave a couple of hours
off, but I tend to be a bit if a perfectionist, I reduce the thing to
components and then wash them thoroughly usually using paint thinners as
this does not require a water rinse.
To do the clip, you will need to remove the bell housing and rear extension,
pull out the laygear pin and allow the laygear cluster to drop into the
bottom of the box, then you can pull out the input shaft and then the
mainshaft, then you might as well lift the laygear cluster out and then fit
all new bearings.
Be very wary about changing the synchro cones, if the gear change is smooth
and you do not have crunchy gears there is really no reason to change them,
conversely if you do have crunchy gears then you will have to be sure of the
source, there have been messages about how to identify a good synchro from a
bad one so I won't try to cover that! What I would suggest is get some new
springs for the detent balls in the synchro hubs.
To get the circlip off of the front of the mainshaft without the correct
tool is a bit slow, you need three or four hands without the extra body in
the way! (Man was definitely not designed by an engineer!) I usually use a
couple of small bladed screw drivers to lift the clip out of the groove and
then gently try to pull the clip forwards before it falls back in the
groove, once it is far enough forward you can get modified screwdriver down
behind it and prevent it from falling back into the groove, once you reach
this point you are winning!
On reassembly, the only real tip I can give you is to pass a couple of old
shoe laces under the laygear cluster to help you to control the thing during
re-fitting the laygear pin, also stick the bronze thrust washers to the end
of the gear cluster with grease, these are about the most fiddly things to
get in place, they tend to want to move out of line at the slightest
provocation!

Hope this helps for starters!

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Templeton"
Subject: RE: GT6 Gearbox


Thanks for the info Graham, from this info I get the following points:

1/ Don't buy one clip buy a box.
2/ This is a yearly maintenance procedure, once done a couple of times
it will become a snap and I can do it in my sleep :-P
3/ Treat the clips with minimal stress and realize any diversion from
install, get a new one.

I know I can have the gearbox out in about 45minutes to 1hour, how long
and do you have a successful procedure that minimizes the work :-) Yes,
learning from the experienced is always the best

David Templeton
'59 Triumph TR3a
'74 Triumph Spitfire



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