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Rear spring with too much arch

Moss Motors
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Mail From: Stuart Greenwood <(email redacted)>

About 6 monhts ago I replaced the rear spring on my MkIV with a new one from
Moss Motors in Goleta. The old one was bottoming going over dips in the road.
The problem I have is that the rear wheels now have quite a bit of
positive camber and I can feel the wheels "tucking in " when I go round a
corner even at moderate speeds. The only solutions I can come up with are get
the spring de-arched like Kasner says in his book or put a thick spacer
between
the diff and the spring to lift it up so that the drive shafts angle
becomes
closer to horizontal. However the spacer idea is a little tricky
since it would
have to have a stub to locate in the hole on the diff and then
a hole in its'
top side so the stub on the spring bracket would slot in and
hence retain the
ability of the spring to pivot. It looks almost impossible
to drill holes lower
down in the uprights which carry the drive shafr
bearings hence lifting the
drive shafts without using a spacer. I was hoping
that the spring would de-arch
itself after a while but I put a load of bricks
in the trunk and just couldn't
get to even a zero camber let alone negative
camber as it should be.
Has anyone come across this problem and found a
solution?
I also notice that Kasner also recommends removing the loop on the
second leaf
but this loop looks like it is a safety device in the event
of failure of
the main leaf to upright attachment.
Stuart a Greenwood
71 Mk
IV Spitfire, 71Mk 1 Stag
_______________________________________________

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Mail From: Cleobury Phil <(email redacted)>

Possibly a long drive shaft spring from a 1500.
Two drive shafts on a Mk IV (mostly short)and 1500 (long) 1 inch difference

On 8/3/2010 3:22 PM, Stuart Greenwood wrote:
> About 6 monhts ago I replaced the rear spring on my MkIV with a new one from
> Moss Motors in Goleta. The old one was bottoming going over dips in the road.
> The problem I have is that the rear wheels now have quite a bit of
> positive camber and I can feel the wheels "tucking in " when I go round a
> corner even at moderate speeds. The only solutions I can come up with are get
> the spring de-arched like Kasner says in his book or put a thick spacer
> between
> the diff and the spring to lift it up so that the drive shafts angle
> becomes
> closer to horizontal. However the spacer idea is a little tricky
> since it would
> have to have a stub to locate in the hole on the diff and then
> a hole in its'
> top side so the stub on the spring bracket would slot in and
> hence retain the
> ability of the spring to pivot. It looks almost impossible
> to drill holes lower
> down in the uprights which carry the drive shafr
> bearings hence lifting the
> drive shafts without using a spacer. I was hoping
> that the spring would de-arch
> itself after a while but I put a load of bricks
> in the trunk and just couldn't
> get to even a zero camber let alone negative
> camber as it should be.
> Has anyone come across this problem and found a
> solution?
> I also notice that Kasner also recommends removing the loop on the
> second leaf
> but this loop looks like it is a safety device in the event
> of failure of
> the main leaf to upright attachment.
> Stuart a Greenwood
> 71 Mk
> IV Spitfire, 71Mk 1 Stag
> _______________________________________________
>
> (email redacted)
> Donate: team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $11.47
> Archive: team.net/archive
> Forums: team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: autox.team.net/mailman/options/spitfires/(email redacted)
_______________________________________________

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Mail From: Andrew Mace <(email redacted)>

The spring doesn't "care" how wide the rear track is, since the vertical links
pivot on their trunnions -- or SHOULD pivot on their trunnions. Perhaps seized
trunnion bushes in the vertical link/hub assembly is part of a problem?




--Andy Mace

*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
*Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph
Herald engine with wings.
-- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22)

Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph
Register: vtr.org

Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald
Database: triumph-herald.us




-----Original Message-----
From: Cleobury Phil <(email redacted)>
To: (email redacted)
Sent: Wed, Aug 4, 2010 9:08 am
Subject: Re: [Spits] Rear spring with too much arch


Possibly a long drive shaft spring from a 1500.
Two drive shafts on a Mk IV (mostly short)and 1500 (long) 1 inch difference
_______________________________________________

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Mail From: Cleobury Phil <(email redacted)>

That's exactly what I thought....
Then last year I changed my spit with narrow drive shafts ie high ride
height/toe in - bottom of the wheels were well in ie \ / - this had
been incorrect for 10 years (having put in a new spring) to long drive
shafts and it went to near perfect ie l l -!
Go figure!

On 8/4/2010 10:21 AM, Andrew Mace wrote:
> The spring doesn't "care" how wide the rear track is, since the vertical links
> pivot on their trunnions -- or SHOULD pivot on their trunnions. Perhaps seized
> trunnion bushes in the vertical link/hub assembly is part of a problem?
>
>
>
>
> --Andy Mace
>
> *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
> *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph
> Herald engine with wings.
> -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22)
>
> Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph
> Register: vtr.org
>
> Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald
> Database: triumph-herald.us
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cleobury Phil<(email redacted)>
> To: (email redacted)
> Sent: Wed, Aug 4, 2010 9:08 am
> Subject: Re: [Spits] Rear spring with too much arch
>
>
> Possibly a long drive shaft spring from a 1500.
> Two drive shafts on a Mk IV (mostly short)and 1500 (long) 1 inch difference
> _______________________________________________
>
> (email redacted)
> Donate: team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $11.47
> Archive: team.net/archive
> Forums: team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: autox.team.net/mailman/options/spitfires/(email redacted)

--
Regards
Cleobury P
_______________________________________________

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Mail From: "Joe Curry" <(email redacted)>

The springs do not differ in length regardless of whether the axle shafts
were ling or short. That is why the cars with longer shafts sit with an
exaggerated negative camber.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: (email redacted)
[mailto:(email redacted)] On Behalf Of Cleobury Phil
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 6:08 AM
To: (email redacted)
Subject: Re: [Spits] Rear spring with too much arch

Possibly a long drive shaft spring from a 1500.
Two drive shafts on a Mk IV (mostly short)and 1500 (long) 1 inch difference

On 8/3/2010 3:22 PM, Stuart Greenwood wrote:
> About 6 monhts ago I replaced the rear spring on my MkIV with a new one
from
> Moss Motors in Goleta. The old one was bottoming going over dips in the
road.
> The problem I have is that the rear wheels now have quite a bit of
> positive camber and I can feel the wheels "tucking in " when I go round
a
> corner even at moderate speeds. The only solutions I can come up with are
get
> the spring de-arched like Kasner says in his book or put a thick spacer
> between
> the diff and the spring to lift it up so that the drive shafts angle
> becomes
> closer to horizontal. However the spacer idea is a little tricky
> since it would
> have to have a stub to locate in the hole on the diff and then
> a hole in its'
> top side so the stub on the spring bracket would slot in and
> hence retain the
> ability of the spring to pivot. It looks almost impossible
> to drill holes lower
> down in the uprights which carry the drive shafr
> bearings hence lifting the
> drive shafts without using a spacer. I was hoping
> that the spring would de-arch
> itself after a while but I put a load of bricks
> in the trunk and just couldn't
> get to even a zero camber let alone negative
> camber as it should be.
> Has anyone come across this problem and found a
> solution?
> I also notice that Kasner also recommends removing the loop on the
> second leaf
> but this loop looks like it is a safety device in the event
> of failure of
> the main leaf to upright attachment.
> Stuart a Greenwood
> 71 Mk
> IV Spitfire, 71Mk 1 Stag
> _______________________________________________
>
> (email redacted)
> Donate: team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $11.47
> Archive: team.net/archive
> Forums: team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
autox.team.net/mailman/options/spitfires/(email redacted)
_______________________________________________

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Mail From: scotts junk <(email redacted)>

Sounds almost like you have an early model (Mk I - III) fixed spring as they
were considerably stiffer than the late model ( Mk IV - 1500) swing spring
(see Paul Ts chart on spring specs:
teglerizer.com/triumphstuff/springs.htm .

Did you replace the spring yourself or have a shop do it? easy to tell the
different construction betwen the two types of spring:
Fixed spring:
canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/diagram/gt6mkiandiirearsuspension.
html&xsl=diagram.xsl&xhtmlcatalogue=xhtml/catalogue/earlygt6.html&category=ax
lessuspensiondriveshaftsandwheels
Swing Spring:
canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/diagram/gt6mkiiiroadspringanddampe
r.html&xhtmlcatalogue=xhtml/catalogue/gt6mkiii.html&category=axlessuspensiond
riveshaftsandwheels&xsl=diagram.xsl

Or If the replacement is a swing spring then perhaps one meant for a late
model Mk3 GT6 as that is also stiffer than the Spit spring. Have heard that
some suppliers only carry one swing spring for bot Spit & GT6 - check the
thickness of the longest 2 leaves - should be .25". If it is .31 then it's a
GT6 spring.

cheers
Scott

> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:22:50 -0700
> From: (email redacted)
> To: (email redacted)
> Subject: [Spits] Rear spring with too much arch
>
> About 6 monhts ago I replaced the rear spring on my MkIV with a new one from
Moss Motors in Goleta. The old one was bottoming going over dips in the road.
The problem I have is that the rear wheels now have quite a bit of positive
camber and I can feel the wheels "tucking in " when I go round a corner even
at moderate speeds. The only solutions I can come up with are get the spring
de-arched like Kasner says in his book or put a thick spacer between the diff
and the spring to lift it up so that the drive shafts angle becomes closer to
horizontal. However the spacer idea is a little tricky since it would have to
have a stub to locate in the hole on the diff and then a hole in its' top
side so the stub on the spring bracket would slot in and hence retain the
ability of the spring to pivot. It looks almost impossible to drill holes
lower down in the uprights which carry the drive shafr bearings hence lifting
the drive shafts without using a spacer. I was hoping that the spring would
de-arch itself after a while but I put a load of bricks in the trunk and just
couldn't get to even a zero camber let alone negative camber as it should
be.
> Has anyone come across this problem and found a solution?
> I also notice that Kasner also recommends removing the loop on the second
leaf but this loop looks like it is a safety device in the event> of failure
of the main leaf to upright attachment.
> Stuart a Greenwood
> 71 Mk
> IV Spitfire, 71Mk 1 Stag
> _______________________________________________
>
> (email redacted)
> Donate: team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $11.47
> Archive: team.net/archive
> Forums: team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
autox.team.net/mailman/options/spitfires/(email redacted)
_______________________________________________

(email redacted)
Donate: team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation $11.47
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Mail From: scotts junk <(email redacted)>

There is some effect on camber when you switch from early model short axles to
late model long axles: since the lever arm from the pivot (U joint) to the
tire is longer but the spring length (fulcrum point) is the same, the spring
will be compressed more (i.e. have to exert more force) to support the weight
of the car, so the camber will be more negative (or less positive) when you
change from short to long axles.

cheers
Scott



> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 11:12:13 -0400
> From: (email redacted)
> To: (email redacted)
> Subject: Re: [Spits] Rear spring with too much arch
>
> That's exactly what I thought....
> Then last year I changed my spit with narrow drive shafts ie high ride
> height/toe in - bottom of the wheels were well in ie \ / - this had
> been incorrect for 10 years (having put in a new spring) to long drive
> shafts and it went to near perfect ie l l -!
> Go figure!
>
> On 8/4/2010 10:21 AM, Andrew Mace wrote:
> > The spring doesn't "care" how wide the rear track is, since the vertical
links
> > pivot on their trunnions -- or SHOULD pivot on their trunnions. Perhaps
seized
> > trunnion bushes in the vertical link/hub assembly is part of a problem?
> >
> >
> > --Andy Mace
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Cleobury Phil<(email redacted)>
> > To: (email redacted)
> > Sent: Wed, Aug 4, 2010 9:08 am
> > Subject: Re: [Spits] Rear spring with too much arch
> >
> >
> > Possibly a long drive shaft spring from a 1500.
> > Two drive shafts on a Mk IV (mostly short)and 1500 (long) 1 inch
difference
> > _______________________________________________
_______________________________________________

(email redacted)
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